Talk:Claus von Bülow

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[edit] Bülow and von Bülow

Reversion of Bülow to von Bülow is not justified on the basis of American news coverage alone. Americans do not make the distinction between elements of a European surname and will use the von in conjunction with the family name. The European practice, however, is different and this man is a European. While it is "alright" for American media to refer to him as "von Bülow", continental European practice omits the von when referring to just the surname of individuals who use von. Wikipedia does not follow a New York Times style guide. Charles 20:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses the most common form of name in English. Even within the same family there can be differences in the most common form of name in English. The Bavarian artist Adolf von Hildebrand is generally known as "Hildebrand". His philosopher son Dietrich von Hildebrand who worked in the United States is generally known in English as "Von Hildebrand" (but not in German works). This is not a question of what is "right" according to German naming conventions. For THIS individual the most common form of name is "Von Bülow". It is not just American practice; check "The Times" (of London) which more frequently uses "Von Bülow", although there are some occurrences of just "Bülow". The Library of Congress uses "Von Bülow" as do the two major works about the trial Reversal of fortune : inside the von Bülow case (by Dershowitz) and The von Bülow affair (by Wright). Noel S McFerran (talk) 22:07, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Red herring? The most common form of the name is chiefly used in determining the title of the article and does not restrict the content of the article. Like I said, Americans are at liberty to produce American publications which use their American conventions and they can put whatever they want in the titles of their books. It does not dictate the name of an individual though. Noel, are you saying that "Bülow" is wrong? I am not ignorant of what newspapers call people and how names are fuddled or how liberties are taken (or not taken) with naming. If someone was only known by their surname then it may be reasonable to debate it, but common naming at Wikipedia applies to the article title. For you to imply that Bülow is wrong is foolish, it is correct according to how European individuals are treated, even if American authors and news publishers think or do otherwise. The manual of style indicates references to the surname, which in Bülow's case is partible by convention as a European. Charles 22:46, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

No, not a red herring. What we need to deal with is the most common form in English for this particular person. Actually, he is known as "von Bulow" most of the time; and of course, when the surname is used standing alone without a given name or title in front of it, several authorities say it should be "Von Bülow" with an uppercase V, which is one reason that is often seen as well.

McFerran has cited you several reliable sources. I haven't seen any reliable sources cited by Charles relative to the use of Claus's name.

It isn't just newspapers, of course. That's what his own lawyer used in the title of the lawyer's book, for example—can't get much better evidence than that.

It is, of course, his activities in America for which he is primarily notable in any case. That's where the court cases took place. Gene Nygaard (talk) 23:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Previous

Claus, when acting as a lawyer in England in the 1950's, dealt with a case in which the defendant was accused of using insulin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.41.51.240 (talk) 12:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC) This was when Claus was in Quintin Hogg's chambers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.51.112 (talk) 10:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)