Talk:Classical elements in popular culture

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[edit] tarot suits

I've also heard wands=fire, swords=air. —Tamfang 20:23, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

"...revealed in the manga version that Endymion/Tuxedo Kamen draws power from the sun..." Where is that revealed?? --134.88.188.44 22:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Circle of Magic

"In Circle of Magic quartet by Tamora Pierce, each of the four mage students has control over a different element. Sandry (Water) through her weaving, Tris (Air) manifested in weather, Daja (Fire/Metal) by smithcraft, and Briar (Earth) in gardening."

Weak, IMO. There's nothing in the books to show that Sandry's and Tris's elements are water and air. I think it's sufficient to note that the Living Circle religion is a polytheistic religion, divided into classical elements, two gods per element. It may also be beneficial to note that the religion of Namorn (in the Emelan universe) also follows the classical elements. I can even note the specific gods' names out of the list on Pierce's homepage, and connect supporting characters like Lark, Rosethorn and Frostpine to the element of the temple they're bound to. The four protagonists, though, aren't closely tied to any one element. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 13:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pokémon

I'm not sure how to organize a reference to Pokémon, as it is anime, video game, and card game, but the classical elements are an important part of the strategy. MMetro 13:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Voltron

Aren't the mecha in the original Voltron series based on the five Chinese elements? The coloration of each lion, and the location from which each would emerge before going into action, seem to correspond to these elements. B7T (talk) 02:40, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naruto

From the page: "In Naruto there are elemental-based Jutsu or special abilities. They are named Doton (earth), Fuuton (wind), Katon (fire), Raiton (lightning) and Suiton (water)" not sure where this info comes from as Doton means Earth Release, Do being earth and ton being release. The special abilities aren't named Doton, etc that's just what they shout because when they perform their moves they are releasing earth and what not.

No idea how to rewrite that but the notion that Doton is a made up word for Earth Jutsu seems misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.74.196.230 (talk) 01:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

If I may ask, what on earth is a Jutsu? Either it should get an explanatory link, or these entries should be removed. TallNapoleon (talk) 08:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disagree with split by element type

Many of the most notable examples have all four elements represented (and sometimes additional ones), so it doesn't make sense to me to have four our more Naruto, Fantastic Four, The Last Airbender, etc. entries in the article. It also breaks apart the most important characteristic of the works' use of the subject -- the way in which the grouping is done.

Perhaps it could be grouped by "the Greek elements", "the chinese elements" (Wu Xing), and "other elemental groups".--Father Goose (talk) 05:40, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, here's two references for The Fantastic Four entry: [1] [2].--Father Goose (talk) 05:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I would kill the list format entirely. No good will come of it. Instead I would devote a paragraph or so to each of the works cited here (there are only about half a dozen by my count) and how they represent the wider range of portrayal of the elements in their particular medium. TallNapoleon (talk) 04:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wider focus on broader popular culture

Anime and games are nice and all, but they are somewhat niche cultures. Keep them, by all means, but I would ideally like to see them take a back seat to film, literature and colloquialisms that reference the elements, as these are, to be blunt, much more popular forms of popular culture. On another note, I wouls suggest that for games someone add in a reference to Exalted, which has a very strong emphasis on the elements. I would do it myself but I'm about to go unconscious... TallNapoleon (talk) 09:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Literature is more popular than anime?
Stuff gets added according to editor interest and knowledge. Over time, it should get rounded out. I don't know any element-themed works, personally. A little more could be said about The Fifth Element, which presently is in the article as a single piped link without explanation, although the elemental theme in that was really incidental, so maybe there isn't much more to say about it after all.--Father Goose (talk) 10:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of stuff in Ronin Warriors

I don't think we need detailed character descriptions for each character; people can find that on the other page. A general overview of the way elements appear in the show might be better. Also, this strikes me as very similar to Naruto. I would suggest that we begin folding this section in with the Naruto section, making it a wider anime section that uses Naruto as a case study. TallNapoleon (talk) 21:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

  • I was thinking of the comment and the edit. I don't think we need a huge listing of the characters if we can reference to the page. At lost of shows uses the elemental power idea for it's characters. So often that it is listed as a trope (story components or elements which have become standardized through decades (or more) of use) in the trope page here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ElementalPowers. However, trying to just print how the elements link with the world and the aspects it effects might be best for this article. Like the aspect I mentioned with the ideology of the elements in Avatar. In it each element has a mindset which influences the land of the same elements as well as the people. This would be like saying Capitalism and Communism could grant you elemental powers in many ways, which makes it an interesting idea for media studies on the topic. Especially tying it in to real world philosophies and linking them to the philosophies of Avatar in study. I hope this makes sense. HVulpes 16:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Next Phase

So I think that the information we currently have in here is good. Its presentation has been largely cleaned up, with the exception of a couple of sections that need a little bit more elaboration. Obviously there are more things we should have in here. What I would like to do now, though, is to begin folding the sections together according to the sort of medium they belong to, and beginning to explain how they are representative of their wider medium. Probably the best place to begin this would be with Anime and Manga, since these have the most information so far. In the mean time I will begin looking for material to round out other sections--I have some ideas for a games section that should be effective. Finally, more sources are always good :) TallNapoleon (talk) 00:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What about W.I.T.C.H.?

Surely this derserves more of a mention then Sailor Moon?Wild ste (talk) 23:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

  • I've been overwhelmed by work so I've not been able to work on this page yet, but what I'm hoping to get done is a reorganization so that, rather than looking at the classical elements in a bunch of individual works, it looks at how they are portrayed in popular culture. The various animes will ideally be folded into a single section. What I'm absolutely terrified of is seeing this page turn back into a random, jumbled list. As for WITCH, I would say feel free to make a new section on it (so long as it isn't just a list) but it will probably be folded into a larger section and shortened in the coming months. TallNapoleon (talk) 00:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
    • I am interested in such a view, yet I would like to make it so people looking up a series for a project can find out more on the media they might need. Of course this could be as simple as adding a link on top of a name for a media. Examples would be the Avatar:The Last Airbender title linking you to the show's page which has links to more detailed topics on bending and the four elemental nations. Like the components and easter eggs involved with the show. However, with some topics I would love to dive deeper in the aspects of the elements. Like the Fantastic Four, which has many other elemental themes within the work. The Heralds of Galactis tend to have elemental imagery in their uses. There are people who have elemental powers (Crystals of the Inhumans, Hydro-man), those who powers could mimic them (The Wizard's gravity control power and black Bolt's Sonic powers hold the image of floating in the air or destructive winds) or use the idea of alchemy or mixing of elements to create supernatural effects (like Diablo). There was an interesting line of thought within on of the spider-man series (written by the creator of Babylon Five, I forget his name) which was focusing on the totem aspect of spider-man and how heroes tend to have villains like them. Mutants fight mutants, Spider-man (An animal themed hero) tends to fight animal themed villains... and how the Fantastic four tend to fight elemental villains or ones with a scientific base. I might just try to expand on this, after seeing how this article turns out. Thanks, HVulpes, 15:16 EST, 18 May 2008 —Preceding comment was added at 19:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)