Talk:Classic Maya collapse

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Mesoamerica, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to pre-Columbian Mesoamerica, its civilizations, history, accomplishments and other topics. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page.
Resources and guidelines for editing Mesoamerica-related articles: Guidelines— Outline of suggested guidelines and editing conventions Resources— Selected resources and compendia of Mesoamerican sources and studies Citations— Bibliography and pre-filled citations for Mesoamerican sources Journals— Links to selected journals publishing Mesoamerican research, example citation templates Article listing— Inventory and watchlists of WP:MESO articles and their talk pages (Article Watchlist)—(Talkpage Watchlist) Worklists— Project worklists and activities
NB: Assessment ratings and other indicators given below are used by the Project in prioritising and managing its workload.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the Project's importance scale.
WikiProject Mesoamerica priority open tasks: (click "show" to expand) WikiProject Mesoamerica Open Tasklist: a shortlist of things you can do to help out. Queries welcomed here. (Project Main • Activities • Catalogue • Guidelines • Strategy• Tools and refs) edit | watch | purge NEWS and ANNOUNCEMENTS: → Mesoamerica, Maya civilization, Olmec, Palenque are WP:MESO collaboration targets of the moment. → Pre-filled citation templates for Mesoamerican sources at Citations. → Recently promoted to GA status: Yuri Knorosov, Nahuatl language, Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg. PROJECT ACTIVITIES: Meta-tasks and subprojects: • add project banner to articles • document Strategy • assign article ratings per the assessment scheme • add to Project references • collate images and maps • More... Categorisation: • develop full Category scheme • reorganise Cat:Mesoamerica contents • More category tasks... Templates: • {{Mesoamerica site infobox}} (create) • {{Mesoamerica ruler infobox}} (create) • {{Maya civilization}} (improve) • {{WP Mesoamerica}} project banner (populate) • More... ARTICLE TO-DO: Requested articles: • History of Mesoamerica • Chenes (Maya subregion & architectural style) • 260-day Mesoamerican calendar • List of Mesoamerican cultures • Hermann Beyer • Huastec civilization • Valley of Oaxaca • More... Expand from stub: • Calendar round • Chiapas highlands • Chilam Balam • Chol language • Trecena • Veintena • More... Cleanup/attention needed: • Domesticated plants of Mesoamerica • Gender in Mesoamerican cultures • History of Mesoamerica (Paleo-Indian) • Gender in Maya society • Olmec figurine • More... Improvement drive: Start-Class • Mesoamerican calendars • Mesoamerican chronology • Mixtec • Monte Albán • Toltec • Yucatán Peninsula • More... Improvement drive: B-Class • Chichen Itza • La Venta • Maya calendar • Maya civilization • Maya script • Olmec • Quetzalcoatl • More... Prepare for Quality reviews (GA, PR, FAC): • Mesoamerica • Mayan languages • Spanish conquest of Mexico • Palenque • Chunchucmil • More...

	Mexico Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mexico, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Mexico on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Contents 1 Time Period 2 Rename? 3 Bias? 4 highest and best? 5 Folkloric theory? 6 Peasant revolt? 7 Maya capability for largescale trade

[edit] Time Period

The article starts out by saying the collapse was 8th Century A.D. to 9th Century A.D., but later on it says 800 AD - 900 AD. So is it 9th - 10th century, or 700 AD to 800 AD? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.146.19 (talk) 02:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename?

Per some previous discussions elsewhere, there may well be a better title for this article- any suggestions?--cjllw ʘ TALK 07:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

How about Classic Maya collapse? More accurate without being too wordy. --Homunq 21:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm gonna be bold and just move it. Feel free to move it back to Maya collapse if you have any objections. --Homunq 21:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the name can remain "as is." Galaxy413, 9-9-07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Galaxy413 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias?

This article seems to heavily favor the drought theory of collapse. I don't know enough to say if that is because it has become the favored theory scientifically or if it is because of bias on the part of wikipedia editors. It struck me, though, that it might be the latter as until reading this article it had been my understanding that deforestation caused by poor management of resources was the favored theory. Jorbettis 16:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Needs rework, I suppose. A lot of info, that's good. A lot of statements i disagree with... that's a bad sign:) --85.141.88.7 05:12, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] highest and best?

The highest and best art and architecture come from the Classic Maya period — the survivors in later eras did not attain the same quality of civilization or make much further progress. that is helluva loaded statement to make. i'd love to know how one determines what is the 'highest and best art' or the 'quality of civilization'. it didn't seem like this was a direct opinion of any of the cited sources, tho i don't have the books so i can't say for certain. i would just take it out, but i am entirely ignorant of the topic, so for now i will just register my concern and leave it to the experts. --dan 05:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Folkloric theory?

What does present day Mayan folklore tell about what happened? Are such views accounted for? I take for granted that Wikipedian policy are regarded as respectfully intercultural by its users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xact (talk • contribs) 02:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, wikipedia policy is 'respectfully intercultural' as you put it, and there's no intentional favouring of one culture's POV over another's (Systemic bias is another matter, though there's certainly a consciousness of it and good intentions to redress). Note the key policy of WP:NPOV strives for a neutral and proportionately balanced treatment. And certainly, folkloric tradition may be written about and mentioned, where it's germaine to the topic and is described as a tradition, not a 'truth'. However, like any other informational source there's a requirement that it be verifiable, which means it needs to have been notably written down and written about. As for that, I really don't think that modern Maya folklore is in a position to shed any light on the decline (approx. a thousand years ago) of Classic-period urban and ceremonial centres, and AFAIK there is no documented folkloric tradition that claims to hark back to this distant period. A great many of the centres mentioned in this text were completely abandoned and the region depopulated, and a number became truly 'lost cities', even unto the Maya themselves. What little we do have by way of documented tradition or oral history concerns either the mythic past, or relates events no earlier than the Late Postclassic and conquest. These traditions are also documented in areas like the Yucatan and the Guatemalan highlands, well away from the central lowlands. It really is only via archaeology and epigraphy that a collapse in this period has been identified, and not thru any handed-down oral account. --cjllw ʘ TALK 13:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peasant revolt?

The Windsor star did an article that reported that a few scientists and National Geographic explorers found evidence that peasant revolt lead to the collapse of the Mayan Empire. The article stated that the emperor and nobility hunted leopards in the jungle (which were thought of as status symbols) and recieved large amounts of goods in the form of taxes. As the number of leopards decreased, they tried to hunt more of them to keep the public's respect, but eventually, the people just had enough and left the cities en masse. RingtailedFox • Talk • Contribs 03:41, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maya capability for largescale trade

The thought that the Maya were unable to transport large quantities of trade items is in error. Obviously, the obsidian trade from Preclassic times was enormous, from the Highlands throughout the Peten. Obviously, trade in cacao and other agricultural products, was large scale, and the great cacao growing zone was in southern Guatemala. Ethnohistory reports, at the time of Columbus, 20-foot long canoes rowed by Maya, transporting large quantities of goods. Long trains of Maya, with goods on their backs, was evidently the most common method of conveyance; this is still how Maya peasants in Guatemala and Chiapas carry goods, and the amount an individual can carry, I can confirm, is extraordinary. Another point: note 42 about Prescott's descriptions of Cortes and Tenochtitlan is not scholarly; the reference should be to Bernal Diaz' great first-hand account. Also, oddly lacking in this article is a reference to Robert Sharer's The Ancient Maya, the most exhaustive summary on the Maya Jonathan K1938 (talk) 01:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)