Talk:Clan Tweedie

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[edit] Family not a Clan

As Lowlanders the Tweedies should not really be called a Clan but a Family. --Heraldic 15:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree but this seems to have been ignored by the page change Motmit (talk) 15:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Articles on Scottish clans ought to be titled "Clan X" and follow the same format. Whether lowland or highland they are popularly known as clans. The Lord Lyon recognises chiefs of the name and clans. The Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs website uses the terms clan and chief exclusively.--Celtus (talk) 11:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

But as the article says, the Tweedies did not have a chief - only the Laird of Drummelzier Motmit (talk) 11:44, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Tweedie is an armigerous clan: so it is a clan which a some point had someone who bore the undifferenced arms of the name, and this person is considered to have been chief. I suppose thhe Laird of Drummelzier would have been the chief. I don't know anything about the Tweedies, but i guess that no one today holds the arms of Tweedie of Drummelzier. I guess if the Lord Lyon ever grants these arms to someone then he or she would be considered chief of the name Tweedie. I think Heraldic might know more about this. Here's the Clan Tweedie page at standing council website [1] (sometimes the links don't follow through and you have to search for the clan pages on the site). That link says the Tweedies of Drummelzier ran into troubles in the late 1500s, with James Tweedie of Drumelzier being accused of the murder of Geddes of Glenhegdon. This link [2] shows that the Tweedies of Drummelzier seem to have died out in the early 1600s.--Celtus (talk) 13:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - an interesting history which I will try to incorporate - regards Motmit (talk) 07:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I should point out that the information was taken from the book The History of the Tweedie or Tweedy Family published in 1902 (& it is also my site). I'm not sure the Tweedies of Drummelzier have necessarily died out, they may just be lost.--Heraldic (talk) 14:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

(& which I transcribed!) The Oliver branch came out several generations earlier with William, but as far as I can make out the destiny of intervening branches is unknown Motmit (talk) 15:05, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Check out this link [3]. "There is now a belief that clans are Highland and families are Lowland but this is really a development of the Victorian era. In an Act of Parliament of 1597 we have the description of the "Chiftanis and chieffis of all clannis...duelland in the hielands or bordouris" thus using the word clan to describe both Highland and Lowland families."--Celtus (talk) 09:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I am somewhat hesitant in taking Electric Scotland as an authoritative source. I think the Court of Lord Lyon is probably a good arbiter of what is acceptable. Unfortunately the website is down today.--Heraldic (talk) 14:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Got this from the LC website[4];

A clan or family which has a recognised chief or head confers noble status on the clan or family which gives it a legally recognised status and a corporate identity. A family or name group which has no recognised chief has no official position under the law of Scotland.

The Tweedies are certainly armigerous Tweedie & Tweedy Arms--Heraldic (talk) 14:29, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Following on from a point made by Celtus, the Chief/Head of Tweedie can return by one of two ways. The first is to prove to Lord Lyon that the claimant is the senior living descendant of the last known chief or a predecessor. The second is for a specified number of armigerous Tweedies to form a derbhfine. The process is described at the Lyon Court website - The search for clan chiefs.--Heraldic (talk) 14:41, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

A paragraph that touches on this would be a good addition to the article.--Celtus (talk) 05:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

That's right, the site (ES) should not be considered authoritative, but the passage quoted was by Sir Crispin Agnew of Lochnaw who is the Rothesay Herald, that's all.--Celtus (talk) 05:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough.--Heraldic (talk) 07:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tweedie/Tweedy Branches

I'm a bit puzzled why Michael Forbes Tweedie's list of Tweedie branches was "truncated"? The list I added was:

   Tweedy Of Essex, The Hoo, Kempston, And Of Widmore Lodge.
   Tweedie Of Quarter, Rachan, &C.
   Tweedie-Stodart Of Oliver.
   Tweedie Of Rawlinson.
   The Descendants Of The Rev. William King Tweedie, D.D.
   Tweedy Of Cornwall.
   Tweedie Of New Brunswick.
   Tweedy Of Cloonamahon.
   Tweedie In Quothquan, &C.
   Alexander Leslie Tweedie.
   Tweedie In Dreva And Minzon, And Of Coats.
   Alexander Gladstone Tweedie.
   Tweedie From Lindores.
   Andrew Tweedie In Edinburgh.
   Tweedie In Broughton Mains.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heraldic (talk • contribs) 08:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 

I created an extra section with fuller text for some of the branches (Quarter) (Tweedie-Stodart) (Rawlinson) (Dreva etc), so I thought we didn't need them here and it would be helpful just to leave those that do need further work (particularly Essex) If I have taken one out in error, please put it back - regards Motmit (talk) 08:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay. I'll try to put something together regarding Essex as I do have a family tree up to 2008. Admiral Sir Hugh is a scion of Rawlinson, that may be wothy of a mention. --Heraldic (talk) 12:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Heraldry

I have to declare an interest in that I have set up an online armorial for Tweedie/Tweedy and Wikipedia does rather frown upon promoting one's own sites. However, do fellow editors here think a link to a Tweedie/Tweedy armorial would be of any merit as far as this article is concerned? I quite understand if you do not. --Heraldic (talk) 09:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

The policy is clearly aimed at spam use of links for personal promotion solely to achieve a commercial benefit. If it's a personal interest site without a direct financial objective I do not see a problem and I would support it. My view is that ext-links are appropriate if they contain material that cannot be put on Wiki for copyright reasons or if they contain a wealth of detail that would otherwise swamp the article (and provided they reach a point with the info directly accessible - not a home page that calls for further navigation). They are not appropriate if they are blatant advertising with no added value for the article. Sometimes they fall a bit between and others may draw a line differently from where I would. Does that help? Motmit (talk) 05:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I think (of course) it meets the criteria, its not commercial and it does contain details of 20 Coats of Arms that would be overkill in the article. The direct URL is http://www.heraldry-online.org.uk/tweedie/tweedie-arms.htm . --Heraldic (talk) 08:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

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