Talk:Clan MacNeil

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Needed lots of work. Errors in spelling and format. It contained material not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Still needs some more information to flesh it out. -- January 1, 2006 67.62.85.151

Added more information and changed some things. -- January 16, 2006 Ronin.shinta

A lot of editing done...Citations needed, especially in the "trivia" section. -- Scientizzle 20:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

This article still contains unclear or factually innacurate information, the reference to the English government occupying Scotland, is this the Commonwealth of England under Oliver Cromwell? another English government that was occupying Scotland, like that of Edward I? Or was it in fact the British government? And as this article relates only to Scotland i would also opt to use "James VI" to avoid confusion with James I.

Contents

[edit] Duplicate articles

This article is an exact copy of Clan MacNeil of Barra. One of these two should be turned into a redirect of the other. Which is the more proper name for this article? Clan MacNeil or Clan MacNeil of Barra? Resolute 20:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Would like to see the reverse, namely have Clan MacNeil of Barra as the name of the article and Clan MacNeil as a disambiguation page. There are two branches of the clan, and those two branches might not even be related. There are also spelling variations, but all could go to Clan MacNeil and have a general discussion there with articles linked having to do with the Barra vs. Gigha specifics. --Jeffmcneill talk contribs 03:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to see some of the evidence about the possibility of the two branches being unrelated. It seems unlikely; they have almost identical badges, tartans, mottos, records of those from Barra being in Argyll; more to the point, MacNeil and McNeill are anglicisations of the same Gaelic name MacNeill. The article should obviously be divided into sections for each part and location associated with the clan/s.

There ought to be links to http://www.the-macneils.org.uk. Frankly, it seems that the only organised presence is of the Barra spelling; not any other (when it comes to domain names).(a different J.McNeill)

[edit] Norse and Danish

This article uses the terms Norse in an ambiguos way. I believe it is commonly accepted that Norsemen or Norse in English usage is a general term for Scandinavians of the Viking era. When you say "of Norse or Danish origin" it is similar to saying "of British or English origin". If you mean Norwegian say so. If you know the people were predominantly Norwegian and Danish say so. If it is unclear if the people were predominantly Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Icelandic or other Norsemen use Norse. Norse is not synonymous to Norwegian and the Norwegians were as clearly defined as Swedes and Danes were so there is no reason to replace Norwegian with Norse. It will only add confusion.Inge 17:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about Clan McNeill?

As a McNeill of Colonsay, I really do object to being lumped in with the MacNeils of Barra.

It seems some ignorant American has gone and undone all my work at correcting matters.

The Clan Chief of the MacNeils is NOT the Clan Chief of the McNeills!

What did you add? You don't have any contributions to the article at all.--Celtus (talk) 05:05, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
What are you on about? This article contains statements that are incorrect.
As for contributions, there's more than one IP address and username in the world for pity's sake! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.19.254 (talk) 18:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Easy there. You've just removed referenced text and added some misleading statements. The chief of Clan MacNeil is chief of the name. That means he is chief of all MacNeills by Scots law. Please don't add pretend chiefs. There doesn't seem to be a recognised Clan MacNeill, either.--Celtus (talk) 06:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] disambig page info

The massive list of names that was recently copy and pasted from various McNeil, Neil, etc. disambig pages belongs on those disambiguation pages - not this article. Same goes for Al Gore and his ggg-grandfather McNeil...--Celtus (talk) 05:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant content removed.--Celtus (talk) 09:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
What irrelevant content? Can you please discuss what you're doing before making executive decisions! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.19.254 (talk) 18:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
I did discuss it, left it for about a week and then made the changes. Here is what i was referring to though - [1].--Celtus (talk) 06:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coat of Arms

Hey, I'm an American with Scottish roots, and I don't know much about heraldry. I do know that only the chief can wear the coat of arms, but I was wondering if is approporiate to place the coat of arms on the Wiki page, and if so, would someone be willing to include one and a discussion of the symbolism?

I know that the canadian and American Clan MacNeil pages have an image of the crest, but I don't know if it's available to use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgiamed (talk • contribs) 23:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Georgiamed. We need to know the copyright status of the images. Read this: Wikipedia:Finding images tutorial. Anyways, the image quality of the coat of arms on the Canadian site, sucks. I don't think there's much point uploading that. Plus we don't know where it came from, or whether it is out of date or not. The American site is pretty dubious, because it appears to be just bits and pieces pulled from websites around the net. For instance, he's pulled the crest badges from scotclans.com, and the maps are pulled off electricscotland.com, he's also pulled text off houseofnames.com. You can bet the coat of arms there is from some other website. We shouldn't use anything from that website, plus i don't think it should even be linked in the article, (Wikipedia:External links). I think, if we want to show the chief's arms we need to get the correct blazon (description) of his arms, then we could try and find a person on the Wikimedia Commons who will create an image from the blazon. We need to know the correct blazon because there's no way of knowing whether the pics you see in books or on the net are current, out of date, or made up, or just mistaken. A perfect example are the user created crest badges in our article right now. I think both have mistakes in them... (the crest is wrong in the MacNeil one, and the motto is wrong in the McNeill one).--Celtus (talk) 06:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Here's a blazon of the arms of MacNeil of Barra, (source: Adam, Frank; Innes of Learney, Thomas]] (1970). The Clans, Septs & Regiments of the Scottish Highlands, 8th edition, Edinburgh: Johnston and Bacon. ). I think it is out of date though, for instance the crest doesn't appear to be current, also the motto is different from the one used in the crest badge, there may be other things too, but those are the only I noticed right now. Here's what the reference gives... "Arms: Quarterly. 1, Vert, a lion rampant or. 2, Argent, in base the sea, with a castle issuant therefrom proper. 3, Or, a lymphad, sails furled sable. 4, Or, a dexter hand palewise couped gules, within an orle of nine fetterlocks. Crest: A rock proper. Supporters: Two lions propre. Motto: "Vincere vel mori" (Vicotry or death). Lyon Register, II,5; III, 24; XXII, 60; XLVI, 61."--Celtus (talk) 21:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)