Talk:Clément Gosselin
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This article was nominated for deletion on 28 June 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. |
To student7,
I totally agree that we cannot put every soldier in the encyclopedia But I would argue strongly to keep this one How many of the 15 000 revolutionary soldiers sent report on the situation in quebec to Georges Washington and to the Congress ?
He represent 747 people in Quebec who fought on the american side 2 years Before the French enter the war, two years before the French entered the War almost 800 people in Quebec were allready in the war
Who can argue that being a regiment of quebeckers was not different ?
I will put only the following :
1st Canadian Regiment 2nd Canadian Regiment Moses Hazen James Livingston Clément Gosselin Louis-Philippe de Vaudreuil
Clément is not an ordinary soldier, he was a spy for Georges Washington He wrote a report on the situation of Canada for the american congress in october 1778 and he is a founding member of the Cincinati Order with Steuben and Saint-Clair No other soldier of Quebec was there at Newburg for this
Moses Hazen was not an ordinary military Brigade, it was the Canadian with the american Georges Washington was very much aware of the situation in Quebec He will try 4 times to go there during the war. (1775,1778,1780,1783) Clément Gosselin was also instrumental in recruiting for this regiment The move into Quebec forced thousand of Hessian troop to be stationned into quebec town Removing them from the conflict
Carleton and Haldimand will not dare to leave quebec after the scare of 1775-76 Nothing would have happen without Clément Gosselin and his recrutment effort
And they were right in the worst battle with Washington at Brandywine, Germantown, Saratoga, Yorktown
I wikipedia remove this article People will never even know that many people in Quebec were fighting with the american in 1775
As for notability, please notice that Canadian CBC did a program on him (see the reference) And that he is the only soldier mentionned in Canada, a people history of the CBC If even Canadian Television find him notable, I think wikipedia should too
Many Books were made about him and a biography
How many other soldier can claim this much Fame ?
This soldier also knew Montcalm since he was living in Québec city in 1759
- Voting, which you blanked, is out of my hands. I'm just listening. I think people were making a fairly good case for keeping the whole thing. I believe you should restore this blanked page. Unusual to delete someone else's messages. VERY unusual to delete balloting.Student7 17:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry If I removed something I should not have. I put all the commentary back on on this discussion page. Did I remove some voting stuff too ? I didn't realize what it was. I didn't remove the header for the vote. Maybe it was in the empty footnotes I erased thinking it was an error. Can you put it back ? I'm afraid to remove something else again. Etienne2007 19:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
It is a very good point that we cannot put a biography for all of the soldiers, but this one is very special and when historian tell about this story it's allways him who come up. He went from door to door for recrutement, he pay for the others salary, he was not alone in his spy stuff, he has a network of people including priest and doctor. So I kindly ask for your vote if you still can change it. This soldier is not like the others, he was friend with pretty important people including Steuben. The Canadian CBC talk about him in the Book that goes with the series (Canada a Popular History). Many other Canadian historian have talked about him including Lacoursière. More then any other Etienne2007 19:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
- My suggestion would be to feature the "spy" stuff in the first sentence along with the "featured on CBC" (with footnote) and CBC in brackets, I suppose. I would guess that few people would then vote to delete. Forget shortening it. He's either in or out. Might reorganize it around the spy stuff and leave the rest as a trailer. Very well written, I thought. I just didn't understand why he was notable. Student7 20:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] When
- Clément went in hiding from the spring of 1776 to the spring of 1777.
- Clément was taken to prison in the Autumn of 1777 and released six months later in spring 1778.
- In spring 1778 he rejoined his regiment...
- In summer of 1779 he [was] with Moses Hazen...
These are seasonal references used as time periods, and as such they are ambiguous. These would be better reworded using month names where possible. --B.d.mills 07:29, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your remarks, I will put the name of the month instead of the season
[edit] Draft for people who helped the american revolution
Quebec Patriot who help the american during the american revolution
- Moses Hazen
- Edward Antill
- Laurent Olivie
- Clément Gosselin
- Louis Gosselin
- Germain Dionne, father in law of Clément
- Pierre Dionne
- Joseph Dionne
- Philippe Liébert
- Maurice Desdevens
- François Cazeau
- Jean Baptiste Point Du Sable
- Augustin de la Balme
- Antoine Paulin
- Amable Paulin, 15 years old ensign (son)
- Amable Boileau
- Alexandre Feriol
- Guilmot
- MacPherson
- François Monty
- Jacques Monty
- André Pépin
- Etienne Parent
- Jacques Jalby
- Louis Lisotte
- Jean-Baptiste Laframboise
- Simon Lafuno
- Jean-Baptiste Hamelin
- Julien Bélanger
- Noël Bélanger
- Pierre Ayotte
- Jocelyn Asselin
- Étienne Tréhent
- François Turlot
- Jacques Rousse
- Pierre Boileau
- Michel Verly
- Louis Marney, father
- Louis Marney, son
- Michel Hubbard
- Laveau Moissan
- Michel Harbour
- Charles Cloutier
- Augustin Lavoie
- Alexis Duclos
- Pierre Chartier
- Jean-Marie Chartier
- Joseph Chartier
- Antoine Chartier
- Théodore Chartier
- Jean Dabat
- Robert Paul
- Madame Pépin, Madame is his real surname...
- Joseph Langlois
- Daniel Blaisse
- François Devivage
- Baptiste Martin
- Jean-Louis de Vaudreuil, With Chastellux at Yorktown
- Louis-Philippe de Vaudreuil, Admiral in chief of the French Navy
- Joseph-Hyacinthe de Vaudreuil, friend of Beaumarchais
- Pierre Douville, acadian with John Paul Jones
- Pierre Robichaud, acadian at Lexington and Saratoga
- Jacques Bedout, on the ship la Railleuse at Yorktown
- veuve Gaboury, widow pro-american
- veuve d'Antoine Chabot, widow pro-american
- Pierre Bibault, hero of Vincennes
- François Riday de Busseron, hero of Vincennes
- Dr Laffont, hero of Vincennes
- Christophe Pellissier, weapon provider for Quebec 1775
- James Livingston, quebec scott pro-american
- Charles Hay, quebec scott pro-american
- Udney Hay, quebec scott pro-american, quatermaster
- François Sauvage, from jersey island
- Antoine de la Balme
- Daniel-Maurice Godefroy de Linctot
Pro-British
Quebeckers didn't change their opinion after 1776, The british had to station German mercenary (Hessian) to prevent insurection in quebec Those troop will be stuck garding quebeckers instead of attacking american during the war.
Quebecker pro-British
- Saint-Luc de la Corne, slave owner pro-british, his defection lost Saratoga
- Charles Langlade, half-ottawa indian pro-british, his defection lost Saratoga
- Liénard de Beaujeu, lost the Battle of Saint-Pierre
- Augustin Chabot, kill Richard Montgommey at Quebec 1775
- Dambourgès
Patriot Quebeckers who help the american revolution
Dr Boyer Pillon, master surgeon and spy leader Corresponding with Congress, with Georges Washington and the Marquis de Lafayette From Saint-Mathias near Chambly The interception of 3 letters led to the imprisonnement of Pierre du Calvet
Dr Boyer was put in jail with Pierre de la Sales Latterrière in the old Recolet Church in Quebec near the present day Frontenac Hôtel in Quebec While in jail he gave medical training to Laterrière who will get his diploma from Harvard Medical University as one of the first people who did (see his medical publication in the reference)
Pierre du Calvet, Huguenot (protestant)
The women in Quebec Many quebec women took an active part on the side of the american.
Father Gratien, hide the secret letters in is Tabernacle in Saint-Mathias near Chambly
François Cazeau, of the Bearn Regiment of Montcalm Brought boat and supply to the american was put in jail for the rest of the war
Pierre Ayotte, of Kamouraska Put up a system of fire signal to warn the american of incoming British Navy Congratulated after the war by Henry Knox Receive pension for his service even if he was jailed for the rest of the war like François Cazeau Pleding for him Henry Knox told Congress that the people put in jail are as deserving as the people who could continue the fight outside
Clément Gosselin fought 2 majors battles while in Quebec He probably was with James Livingston diversion attack at Saint-John Gates in Quebec city He was capitain of the Second Regiment of Hazen when he battle Beaujeu de Villemonde a pro-British on March 25, 1776 near Saint-Pierre-de-la-rivière-du-Sud (saint-peter-of-the-south-river) http://www.montmagny.com/municipalites/pierre.htm where 150 Quebecs patriots defeated 150 pro-British quebeckers a priest was shot in the leg when he refused to surrender to pro-american milicia who won the battle [1] http://www.encyclobec.ca/main.php?docid=219 Saint-Pierre-de-la-Rivière-du-Sud
[edit] The infamous prison boat on the Hudson
[edit] The French and Spanish Navy fleet of Cadix
La Bataille de Saint-Pierre
Le 25 mars 1776, 150 québécois pro-américains et 80 américains battent les monarchistes de Liénard de Beaujeu. Clément Gosselin is Capitaine of a company.
In the battle the priest l'Abbé Charles-François Bailly de Messein is wounded in the stomach. This priest will become a very arrogant and controversial priest very pro-British anglophile and francophobic and will be forced to resign after an open revolt against him following many nasty letter of insults against Hubert the Bishop of Quebec in 1790. [1]
- [1] Mythe et Réalités de l'Histoire du Québec, Marcel Trudel
François Baby a pro-British will be resented by the people in quebec in his own time for being turn into an englishman more interested in his profit then in protecting people in quebec He will be closely assossiated with Haldimand and his terror policy against people in quebec (including rape and brutality)
- www.erudit.org/revue/vi/1994/v19/n3/201113ar.pdf
- http://www.biographi.ca/EN/ShowBio.asp?BioId=35995&query=Boyer%20AND%20Pillon
Pierre du Calvet
Huguenot Français et agent de Richard Montgomery pendant l'expédition au Québec. Après l'invasion les Catholiques ne pouvaient pas avoir les emplois de juge et seul les protestants comme Du Calvet pouvait faire profession de juge de paix.
En prison il fréquentera Fleury Mesplet, Valentin Jautard, Udny Hay, et d'autre patriote québécois qui ont soutenu les américains.
Après avoir été mis en prison par Haldimand Du Calvet militera contre les pouvoirs abusifs des anglais.
Il rédigera le Appel à la justice de L'État qui revendique qu'ils soient compensés pour ses pertes pendant la révolution américaine.
Après la guerre il deviendra ambassadeur de la France auprès des américains comme Benjamin Franklin ambassadeur américain en France.
Son fils militera pour que la République Française reprennent le Québec pendant la révolution française. (le Directoire à l'époque)
[edit] Références
- [1] http://www.biographi.ca/FR/ShowBio.asp?BioId=35995&query=Pierre%20AND%20Du%20AND%20Calvet
- [2] Quebec Patriot with the american
[edit] Comment moved from body of article to talk page
Need a reference unfortunately. This needs to be resolved---Many detaila of the Regiment of Moses Hazen can be discovered by reading the Washington Letters, a compilation of all of the letters relating to Washington's life. In it you can search for word like Gosselin or Hazen to find information. One crucial part is the final general order of Washington from October 13 to October 19 1781 where each day is detailed for the final attack at Yorktown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.104.49 (talk) 23:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
