Talk:Civil war in Afghanistan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

↓    Skip to table of contents    ↓

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Civil war in Afghanistan article.
Article policies
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Civil war in Afghanistan is part of the WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

I'm commenting out the infobox since this should be about the greater war, not about the individual Battle of Kabul (which should have its own article). Don't want to mislead readers. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 07:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Confusion

There is a confusion over what exactly this civil war is. The Soviets pulled out in 1989, and it is at this point we can consider it to be a civil war between their puppet government and other afghans. This war effectively ended in 1992 with the collapse of the puppet government. It wasnt until 1994 that the Taliban formed, and they made war with the Rabbani government. I would consider this to be a seperate civil war than the one I previously mentioned, as it is not against the soviet puppet government. As time passes the Taliban makes gains, the civil war doesnt end in 1996 with the fall of Kabul to the Taliban, but continues on as the Rabbani government, now working with other militias as the Northern Alliance, continued to fight. I think, using the precedent set by seperating the soviet war from the civil war that followed, that this civil war between the northern alliance and the Taliban would be considered ended when the United States involvement began. What do people think of this rather peculiar situation? ~Rangeley (talk) 04:02, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is a source [1] which illustrate the five phases: Soviet vs Mujahadeen (78-89) (what we consider soviet invasion), Mujahadeen vs Puppet (89-92), Mujahadeen vs Mujahadeen (92-96), Northern Alliance vs Taliban (96-01), and finally US involvement (01-). It doesnt quite go with my above analysis perfectly, but its similar. What we could do is include all 5 phases as a part of the civil war, and have individual articles on the individual phases. We have 1 and 5 already, we lack 2, 3, and 4, or any facimile that includes the events depicted in them. ~Rangeley (talk) 04:21, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Just to add another note, it seems in the 92-96 phase we could possibly have it be a three way infobox, the Rabanni government, those opposed, and the Taliban. Those opposed and the government then joined together in 96 as the northern alliance [2] due to their common goal of ousting the Taliban. This phase, Northern alliance vs taliban, should be a 2 side infobox. The Mujahadeen vs puppet should also be a 2 sided infobox. Just some ideas to consider. ~Rangeley (talk) 04:39, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

hmm the situation is similar like in Somalia. I think the war lasts from 1989-2006 and its ongoing (Taliban insurgency), but with different phases--TheFEARgod 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yea, should we make articles for the different phases you think? They are rather distinct, and that way we can have infoboxes. This civil war article can be an overview of it all. ~Rangeley (talk) 14:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

ok. I suggest Afghan Civil War 1989-1992 and so on. If you have needed material for doing so it would be appreciated. But, Afghan Civil War should be a disambig as the period is already covered in History of Afghanistan 1992- --TheFEARgod 15:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yea, thats a good idea for the article names (until/unless there is a better applicable name). The Afghan Civil War should basically explain that its been going on since 1978, and then have breif overviews of each phase, also linking to the main article. I will start putting together the individual articles though. ~Rangeley (talk) 15:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Good. Check my changes in the 1996-2001 article. --TheFEARgod 16:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Your map should have been in .png format - now it's a bit blurred --TheFEARgod 16:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I will change them. ~Rangeley (talk) 17:38, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Research Progress

I did a lot of research using news articles from the time for the 96-01 phase, which was surprisingly tiring (yet interesting.) I havent found any sources from before 1996 though. So we still need the 89-92 and 92-96 to be fleshed out. I can do quick summarys on this article. ~Rangeley (talk) 20:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:10AFGHANWARNationalGeographic.jpg

Image:10AFGHANWARNationalGeographic.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Oh come on, this photo is a historical symbol, fer chrissakes... Like napalm girl. Read the bloody article if you don't believe me. If you were human you wouldn't need to, just a look at her would be enough. I hate those stupid image bots. --victor falk 15:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What needs to be done?

This article has been quiet for a while. Here are some thoughts of mine:

  • What do we want from expert attention? I find the summaries very well done, but I suppose there always something we've missed.
  • Other sections beside timeline; suggestions?
  • Featured article: I think striving to achieve that is very laudable, not only because it is a very good potential candidate, but more importantly because it is a a contemporary subject that is less noticed than its importance motivates--victor falk (talk) 18:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Comments:

  • FA status seems to be a lofty aim though quite far away - there really isn't much content in the article at present as it seems to be a very brief summary of other articles. I guess a section on impact would be useful. It will also be necessary to source the claim that it has been one long civil war in multiple periods - this is not a unanimous view and should be sourced. MLA (talk) 14:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Totally agree that the objective is far away and long term, though I think the path there is narrow but straight. Anybody knows about FA WP:SS articles that we might use as guides?--victor falk 19:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I think we must settle some things out. Was the Soviet pariod part of the civil war? I find sources calling civil war only the 1989-2001 period. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC) Second, I don't like the fair use picture in the box. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
The multipicity question is tricky indeed. That's something that's needed, more sources about that.
I think there is a wp:biased tendency in considering the Soviet and US involvments as separate wars, because it's so more easy too see things from a superpower than afghan perspective. Also, the shock after Sep. 11, the "What-fucking-bin-laden-country-is-Agfagnistan?" effect. Note that the civil war began in 1978 and the Soviets intervened in 79, and it's not like there was any kind of peace the day after the last Red Army soldier left and the rest of the communist government continued fighting the others.--victor falk 19:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Afghan Civil War" or "Civil war in Afghanistan"

I did a Google search for both terms and Google came up with roughly the same number of hits. (see here and here). But which one is a better term? I think "Civil war in Afghanistan" is a more accurate term. Anyone disagree? -- Behnam (talk) 11:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't like "war in (country)", in my opinion it's bad English grammar. It's the result of the unclearness of the conflict being contemporary. In the future, maybe it will be called the Afghan Forty-Two Years War or something. Until then, the most appropriate title is the most straightforward one. Maybe Afghan civil war, uncapitalised, would make that clearer.--victor falk 03:33, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. Should'nt it just be "War in Afghanistan (1978-present)"? After all, I would have thought a civil war ceases to civil war after a large number of foreign countries, including a brace of superpowers, become involved. Any thoughts? --Raoulduke47 (talk) 11:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
It's not an either or proposition. A war can be both civil and international.
Hm.. What would become of War in Afghanistan (2001-present) then?--victor falk 01:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Wel presumably "War in Afghanistan (2001-present)" would be part of "War in Afghanistan (1978-present)". But I'm ready to be convinced that it was mostly a civil war. --Raoulduke47 (talk) 22:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)