Talk:Cinema of the United States

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Contents

[edit] Name

Someone please tell me why this article is under Cinema of the United States and not Hollywood. I know Hollywood is the name of a place but we could always use a disambiguation page that says Hollywood can refer to: Hollywood the place, Hollywood the movie industry, etc. Nsrav (talk) 07:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)Nsrav

[edit] Golden Age

In the "Golden Age" period, Hollywood's prolific move production is compared to "cars rolling off Henry Ford's assembly line". This is a cute line, but it doesn't seem appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.191.79 (talk) 05:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No subject

Film noir doesn't belong in the "golden age" of hollywood. Or at least according to the article on film noir.

Removed this sentence:

If moving pictures were not an American invention, they have nonetheless been the preeminent American contribution to world entertainment.

According to the linked page Film, moving pictures are an American invention. What's the true story here? Rmhermen 22:14 Mar 20, 2003 (UTC)

I was wondering about that myself, but that was what the us government article said. It did not elaborate and I haven't had a chance to check it out. Sfmontyo

According to http://www.cinescene.com/dash/lumiere.html, it was a french man, Lumiere, and his two sons (in Lyons), who having been inspired by Thomas Edison's Kinetoscope, had invented a process of moving a filmstrip and projecting it onto a screen. Sfmontyo

Finally, according to this article, http://animation.filmtv.ucla.edu/program/before.html, others had a system of projecting images onto the wall, including Edison's personal system (not his public Kinetoscope), but it would appear that the sprocketed film coordinated with a shutter was the design of the french man Louis Lumiere. Sfmontyo

This title is ludicrous. It sounds like it's about movies ABOUT the United States. Avoiding the use of the adjective "American" is nonsense. -- Zoe

Okay Zoe, first I'm glad that you don't mince words and I've seen enough posts from you that I don't take this personally, but I'd appreciate it if you would be a little nicer. Anyway, here's my rationale, in the beginning, there was Culture of the United States and Music of the United States (as well as things like Politics of the United States which I think is a bit odd). So in the interest of keeping it similar to the other half-dozen to dozen _______ of the United States, I added Literature of the United States, Dance of the United States, Architecture of the United States, Visual arts of the United States. (BTW: I didnot use Film of the United States, because that literally sounded like it was a film about the US). Anyway, are you suggesting that we:

  1. ) special case just this entry
  2. ) change all of the entries

Again, I was simply trying to go along with what I preceived was the spirit of the articles. Cheers, Sfmontyo 02:16 Mar 21, 2003 (UTC)

How about this title: Movies made in the United States - Sfmontyo Actually, I don't like that either. Any suggestions?

I understand what you're saying, and I apologize for the tone, but the thing is that around here, the word "American" has become a dirty word, and I was reacting to that. I still think the title is wrong, but then, what do I know, I'm just one of those Unitestatesians who have stolen the name that belongs to everyone in the Western Hemisphere. -- Zoe


It seems to me that the title is perfectly fine, and I, for one, wasn't confused at all. The rationale given above is perfect, I think. Let it stay as it is. Atorpen

Having read the above justification, I think the title is perfectly correct and logical. I will others would show the same logic sometimes in naming articles. STÓD/ÉÍRE 04:03 Mar 21, 2003 (UTC)

But JT, you're not an imperialist warmongering Unitedstatesian. -- Zoe
Oops, I wanted to move Film history/France, Film history/Italy and Film history/United States out of subpages and I put them at Cinema of France, Cinema of Italy and Cinema of the United States, not knowing a discussion had already come up. I like my way better, because movies of the United States sounds strange to me, but I don't feel strongly. If someone wants to integrate the two articles here, there or somewhere in between, that's fine. Tuf-Kat 16:34 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

From Wikipedia:Votes for deletion:

  • Movies of the United States and Cinema of the United States are essentially the same, except "Cinema" is just a hole-y list. I propose Cinema gets deleted. Where's the best place to ask for a mediation?
    • On wikipedia:duplicate articles! :) Martin 21:55, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    • My suggestion would to the Cinema content to Movies, and redirecting Cinema to Movies. The content seems valid enough as far as it goes. -- Smerdis of Tlön 20:34, 20 Oct 2003 (UTC)
      • I think Cinema is more canonical (?) than Movies - rather like Photography and Snaps. Andy G 21:03, 20 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    • Unfortunately, most of the articles about the movies of other nations do seem to be titled Cinema of . . . (Cinema means a movie you don't want to see, with long shots of gauze curtains blowing in the wind, and subtitles, and no explosions.) So it looks like "cinema" is the keeper. -- Smerdis of Tlön 00:44, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    • I second moving content from Movies to Cinema and placing a redirect at Cinema. Virtually everyone calls them movies in the U.S. If there's a summary page somewhere that lists all countries, then just use Cinema if you want to make it pretty. Daniel Quinlan 08:43, Oct 21, 2003 (UTC)
    • Whichever is kept, it seems better to make the other a redirect than to delete it. Andre Engels 08:56, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)
    • I third the move of content. Cinema is about the art form and its history. Movies should be a list of movies which references cinema for the art form. JamesDay 09:11, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)
      • What about films? There's already a long list of almost entirely US pictures at List of 'years in film'. Andy G 22:16, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)
        • I suppose there's an exclusive list for other countries, so we might as well accept the inevitability of a list of only US movies page. Personally, I don't care, I just forsee the inevitability of it happening.JamesDay 11:11, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

In light of the above consensus-free discussions, I combined the content at cinema of the United States. While I prefer this to movies of the United States, the duplicate articles disturb me more. At least the content is now together and can be moved en masse.Tuf-Kat 02:53, Dec 23, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

Having added images, I'd like to ask other editors to help with the introduction. The quote by Pauline Kael - out of context and referring to an Italian film - is presented in a way that denigrates this subject. Surely there's a better way to begin the article. Durova 10:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

  • True, but the new section claiming "Its history is marked by two distinct periods, the first often referred to as Classical Hollywood cinema, the second as the New Hollywood" is extremly dubious. There's a lot of this kind of stuff written on WP, presumably by people who have read Easy Riders, Raging Bulls and little else. JW 18:34, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
True. One could further divide them by decade, by pre-code and post-code (Production Code), by silent/sound, by genre, pre-VCR and post-vcr, pre-filmschool and post-filmschool ... --Jahsonic 21:07, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I prefer the new introduction, but my understanding is that "new Hollywood" only lasted about as far as Heaven's Gate. Post-Star Wars is really another different era; the blockbuster era if you like. As for the deletions, we can all have fun adding our favourite actors or directors to the lists, but it looks like favouritism to put someone like Hal Ashby in with Huston, Spielberg or Kubrick. There are at least a dozen US directors you would add to the list before him. The actor list is the one most often added to; the key word I think is "iconic", not "famous". It's difficult to draw the line, but I don't believe anyone would really describe Tom Hanks as iconic. JW 11:30, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] missing something

Needs more stuff on CGI and animated films. Finding Nemo, Toy Story, and Shrek have been massively successful. Gflores Talk 05:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarity

"The cinema of the United States, although it is sometimes simply referred to as Hollywood, does not refer only to the film industry of the United States of America. Other modes of production like documentary film or experimental film manage to exist beside the dominant cinema."

This makes little sense. "Hollywood" refers specifically to the big studios, even if they are financing smaller-budget films. No one is going to call a film like, say, "Roger & Me" a "Hollywood" film, but they would call something like "Fahrenheit 9/11" "Hollywood" because of the bigger budget and bigger marketing/studio associations. I really don't understand how documentary or experimental film is outside the "film industry of the United States." I'm going to clarify this section, but I gues I'm anticipating some debate over this. Also, the "other modes of production" do more than just "manage to exist" IMHO.

One final note - there really should be a list of famous film directors. Is there one? - IstvanWolf 05:51, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I was never really convinced by the intro either, but it seems to be the wrong way round now. It says "cinema of the United States " is used to refer to the larger studio-produced cinema. What you mean surely, is "Hollywood" is used to mean this. JW 22:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from Version 0.5 review

I think this is a nicely put-together article, and it might well pass as a Good article if you nominate it. However, I held off giving it A-Class status because I think the English could be improved. Although it's not really bad, it is awkward in many places and could benefit from a rewrite. Nice job generally, though, I passed it for V0.5. Walkerma 05:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable film directors: Clint Eastwood

In my opinion Clint Eastwood should be included in the "Significant American-born film directors"-list. In addition to his career as an actor he has also directed several important films that one might even call "modern classics", such as "The Outlaw Josey Wales", "Million Dollar Baby" and of course "Unforgiven". So he obviously IS a notable film director and not just a "favourite non-notable director", don't you think? 83.189.18.112 14:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin Bacon an "iconic" actor?

In my opinion Kevin Bacon isn't that "iconic" as to be mentioned in the "iconic actors"-list. You simply cannot compare him to the real legendary actors and actresses like Humphrey Bogart, John Wayne or Katharine Hepburn. He hasn't contributed much for the art and history of American cinema .83.181.70.133 17:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other film industries

Should we include (more) info about how other film industries have modeled themselves after (modern) hollywood? Bollywood, for instance, is the obvious; not only the name but most of the films are patterned after films currently being worked on and/or released in the United States. Fmehdi 23:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relative size?

On a similar note, how big is Hollywood? Is it the world's second-biggest movie industry? I'm pretty sure it is, but I need a confirmation. Brutannica 01:58, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Depends what you mean by "big". Hollywood makes more money and spends more money. But Bollywood makes a larger number of films. Cop 663 14:59, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Actors and directors who were not born in the U.S.

How about a list with actors and directors who were not born in the U.S., but have contributed a lot to American film history? I know this might be difficult, but lately names like Cary Grant, Charlie Chaplin and Alfred Hitchcock have been added to the existing list(s) and had to be removed because they weren't born in the U.S.. Ironic, since they were very important figures in American film history. Dutzi (talk) 13:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Creating a "List of" article

Is it a good idea to create a "List of" article for the actors, the lists here is getting very big. In addition, what is the criteria being used for inclusion in this article? --Bardcom (talk) 00:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)