Talk:Cinderella

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[edit] Power NPOV

The Cinderella story is much criticised for its negative, traditionalistic, approach to women.

while the first part certainly is true we don't need the author sticking in his own opinion here. While headstrong power chicks have been drilled into us as the ideal type of women for many decades now...that doesn't mean a modest quietly kind girl like Cinderella can't get her fair shake and come out on top too... Jarwulf 10:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plot hole?

I've always wondered why the glass slipper stayed in glass and didn't transform back to whatever she had on her feet before. --Stereo 12:38, 2005 Mar 31 (UTC)

Forgot to mention in my edit summary that I added "see also artistamp" under the philatelic usage of the word "cinderella."

It is inaccurate to say that Cinderella's name was "Cinderella." This is the abusive nickname given to her by her stepsisters as she was dirty and forced to sleep in cinders. Her true name is never given in the story. --Daniel C. Boyer 19:37, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

In the arabic/Persian version I just came across while reading the Thousand Nights and One Night, none of the characters have names, either. The girl doesn't have any nicknames, either, though.

Evil step mother is my siter ( S.G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.253.22.48 (talk) 20:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure how common it is in fairy tales, that the central/title character is the only one with a name (compare Rumpelstiltskin, Mossycoat), and how often it's an acquired name rather than a real one. -- Smjg 17:44, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

mentioned ---- I've also heard the verre/vair confusion myth before, and also the theory that it could've been vert (green).

But I've also come across a version where the stepmonster knocks the glass slipper and smashes it to pieces, after the stepsisters have tried it. Cinderella then gets the matching slipper out to prove her identity.

It must have taken some care to dance and to run in a hurry in slippers that really were made of glass….

By the way, what descriptions are there (as opposed to pictures in specific editions) of what Cinderella's dress actually looked like? And did she necessarily have gloves reaching 3/4 of the way up the arm?

-- Smjg 17:44, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] what about discussing the philosophcal aspects of the character of cinderella

What about discussing the philosophcal aspects of the character of cinderella, please take a look at sites like [1] to see what i mean and then integrating into the main article.

[edit] Moreover on verre/vair confusion

Last Friday, QI featured the question "What were Cinderella's slippers made of?" I'm inclined to believe QI got something wrong again.

There was no mention of the original gold mentioned here, but the answer referred to vair, which apparently refers specifically to squirrel fur (it was the "squirrel" answer that the panel were supposed to find). The corruption was attributed to Charles Perrault. However, if Perrault really was French, would he have confused the two words? -- Smjg 14:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


Am I the only one who remembers the discovery a few years ago, of one chopine (an Italian platform shoe of the Renaissance) that was made entirely of blown glass? I wanted to put this in the article as definitive final proof that the slippers were, indeed, made of glass & that scholars are wrong when they say otherwise, but I did not want to do so without some sort of corroboration. And no, I do not believe Perrault was an idiot when it came to writing his own language. FlaviaR FlaviaR 06:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crystal?

Most people associate glass with crystal, so presumably that is why in a recent production by Kingswood Players, it was crystal slippers that Cinderella wore following her magical transformation, by her Fairy Godmother.


Regarding her name, my understanding was that the ugly sisters abbreviated from Cinderella to Cinders because she was forced to reside by the fire in the kitchen.

Richard C Bond Feb 2006

[edit] Disney vs Brothers Grimm

Despite the article's former claims, the Disney version is NOT universally the standard version of the tale.

Unless my generation has bigger problems than I am aware of, the predominent version of the tale in Germany is Grimms' Aschenputtel, which is only vaguely similar to the Disney version. In fact, until I bumped into the Disney movie on pay-TV, I wasn't even aware of Disney's Cinderella being based on the same tale.

Disney movies HAVE been quite good at sanitising various fairy tales and stories beyond recognition, but at least in the German speaking countries, Grimms' Fairy Tales are still well-known and thus their versions are still popular.

Sorry if I sound a bit irritated, but I have a serious grudge against Disney -- a therapist would probably blame the Mary Poppins movie for that, but if someone says that out loud, Jack Thompson might start crusading against cartoons, too. =P -- Ashmodai 23:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Neither Disney nor the brother's Grimm are the universal tale, in fact there are hundreds of Cinderella tales in the world, those two are just most popular.

From my own research, Walt Disney Pictures based their feature-length film musical on the Giambattista Basile-Charles Perrault version out of France, one of the variants of this tale. I have not found a film interpretation of Aschenputtel, as told to the Grimms, to date--in that variant, the wicked stepsisters cut off their toes in order to shoehorn their massive feet into the mystery pump, and birds perched over the carriageway call the bluff--"Blut in dem Schuh" was the quote the birds are alleged to have used. - B.C.Schmerker 23:46, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The "fur slipper" rumor

One thing I've noticed is that there is a slightly dirtier version of the rumor about the glass/fur slipper that suggests that not only was there a confusion about whether the slipper was glass or fur, but also that the "fur slipper" which was supposedly mistranslated was in fact a euphemism for something a bit more womanly and earthy than it's literal meaning. Apparently, in this version, instead of the women lining up to try on the slipper, they line up and the Prince tries out their slippers. Maybe this is a reaction to the sanitised Disney version (and sorry, Ashmodai, but at least in the UK, and by extention, I assume, the English speaking Western World, that is the standard version, even if it's local to Angloland rather than universal), or something. Reveilled 22:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Egyptian

The anachronism of a supposed skin-color sensitivity in Egypt itself is revealing.

What's so anachronistic about that? Poor girls worked outside and got their skins darkened; rich girls stayed inside and were paler. Very like the ashes and rags of the Cinderella tradition. Goldfritha 22:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Chinese Text

It seems useful to post the Chinese text here. I will add the translation... when I have time, though there must be more capable translators around here.

南人相傳，秦漢前有洞主吳氏，土人呼為吳洞。娶兩妻，一妻卒。有女名葉限，少惠，善陶金，父愛之。末歲父卒，為後母所苦，常令樵險汲深。時嘗得一鱗，二寸余，金目，遂潛養於盆水。日日長，易數器，大不能受，乃投於後池中。女所得余食，輒沉以食之。女至池，魚必露首枕岸，他人至不復出。其母知之，每伺之，魚未嘗見也。因詐女曰："爾無勞乎？吾為爾新其襦。"乃易其弊衣，後令汲於他泉。計里數百也，母徐衣其女衣，袖利刃行向池，呼魚，魚即出首，因斤殺之。魚已長丈余，膳其肉，味倍常魚，藏其骨於鬱棲之下。逾日，女至向池，不復見魚矣，乃哭於野，忽有人被發粗衣，自天而降，慰女曰："爾無哭，爾母殺爾魚矣，骨在糞下。爾歸，可取魚骨藏於室，所須第祈之，當隨爾也。"女用其言，金璣衣食隨欲而具。及洞節，母往，令女守庭果。女伺母行遠，亦往，衣翠紡上衣，躡金履。母所生女認之，謂母曰："此甚似姊也。"母亦疑之。女覺，遽反，遂遺一隻履，為洞人所得。母歸，但見女抱庭樹眠，亦不之慮。其洞鄰海島，島中有國名陀汗，兵強，王數十島，水界數千里。洞人遂貨其履於陀汗國，國主得之，命其左右履之，足小者履減一寸。乃令一國婦人履之，竟無一稱者。其輕如毛，履石無聲。陀汗王意其洞人以非道得之，遂禁錮而栲掠之，竟不知所從來。乃以是履棄之於道旁，即遍歷人家捕之，若有女履者，捕之以告。<there seems to be a gap here???>陀汗王怪之，乃搜其室，得葉限，令履之而信。葉限因衣翠紡衣，躡履而進，色若天人也。始具事於王，載魚骨與葉限俱還國。其母及女即為飛石擊死，洞人哀之，埋於石坑，命曰懊女塚。洞人以為祀，求女必應。陀汗王至國，以葉限為上婦。一年，王貪求，祈於魚骨，寶玉無限。逾年，不復應。王乃葬魚骨於海岸，用珠百斛藏之，以金為際。至征卒叛時，將發以贍軍。一夕，為海潮所淪。成式舊家人李士元聽說。士元本邕州洞中人，多記得南中怪事。

--K.C. Tang 08:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


Uh, this is what I got out of Babelfish by translating Traditional Chinese into English: (Hidden by me, as the "translation" occupies too much space and is distracting to readers--K.C. Tang 23:50, 13 October 2006 (UTC)) It doesn't make sense to me. Is it accurate? Why sigh, cutie pie? 00:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Translation, rather free, to be completed: "According to the southerners, in their region, before the Qin and Han dynasties, there was a cave inhabited by the Wu families. The natives call it Cave Wu. The head of the family married twice. The daughter her first wife gave him was called Yexian. Wu was fond of Yexian, who was smart, and skillful at gold panning. After his father's death, Yexian was ill-treated by her stepmother. Her stepmother often ordered her to go to dangerous places to cut wood and draw water. Once Yexian, while drawing water, captured a tiny, golden-eyed fish. She bred the fish in a basin. The fish grew quickly, and outgrew one basin after another. Finally Yexian threw it into a pool, and fed it with the food she saved. The fish only showed itself when Yexian came to see it. Her stepmother soon came to discover the existence of the fish. Yexian and the fish did not know that the woman knew. The woman came up with a trick - she said to Yexian: 'You have been working so hard! Let me renew your coat as your reward.' Then she told Yexian to put off her old coat, and ordered her to draw water at a distant place. When the woman calculated that Yexian had gone for a long distance, she put on Yexian’s coat, hiding a sharp knife underneath her sleeves, and walked towards the pool where the fish dwelled. She called the fish, the fish showed itself, and she killed it with the knife. The woman ate the fish, which had grown to a considerable size, and proved more delicious than usual fishes. She buried the bones of the fish under the soil. Next day, Yexian came to the pool to find that the fish was missing. She wept. All of a sudden someone disheveled and badly-clad descended from heaven, consoling the girl: 'Don’t cry, girl. Your mother killed your fish and buried its bones under the soil. Take the bones and hide them in your room. Pray to them whenever you need something.' The girl did what she was told, and got whatever she wanted by praying to the bones..."--K.C. Tang 08:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


Here is a translation that I found in a Norton Critical Edition fairy tale anthology:
"The Chinese Cinerella Story" from Folk-lore, vol. 58 (London: The Folklore Society, 1947), 18-20. Narrated by Li Shih-yüan and recorded by Tuan Ch'eng-shih (c. 850 AD); Translated by Arthur Waley (1947).

Among the people of the south, there is a tradition that before the Ch'in and Han dynasties there was a cave-master called Wu. The aborigines called the place the Wu cave. He married two wives. One wife died. She had a daughter called Yeh-hsien, who from childhood was intellegent and good at making pottery on the wheel. Her father loved her. After some years the father died, and she was ill-treated by her step-mother, who always made her collect firewood in dangerous places and draw water from deep pools. She once caught a fish about two inches long, with red fins and golden eyes. She put it into a bowl of water. It grew bigger every day, and after she had changed the bowl several times she could find no bowl big enough for it, so she threw it into the back pond. Whatever food was left over from meals she put it into the water to feed it. When she came to the pond, the fish always exposed its head and pillowed it on the bank; but when anyone else came, it did not come out. The step-mother knew about this, but when she watched for it, it did not once appear. So she tricked the girl, saying, "Haven't you worked hard! I am going to give you a new dress." She then made the girl change out of her tattered clothing. Afterwards she sent her to get water from another spring and reckoning that it was several hundred leagues, the step-mother at her leasure put on her daughter's clothes, hid a sharp blade up her sleeve, and went out to the pond. She called to the fish. The fish at once put its head out, and she chopped it off and killed it. The fish was now more than ten feet long. She served it up and it tasted twice as good as an ordinary fish. She hid the bones under the dung-hill. Next day, when the girl came to the pond, no fish appeared. She howled with grief in the open countryside, and suddenly there appeared a man with his hair loose over his shoulders and coarse clothes. He came down from the sky. He consoled her saying, "Don't howl! Your step-mother has killed the fish and its bones are under the the dung. You go back, take the fish's bones and hide them in your room. Whatever you want, you have only to pray to them for it. It is bound to be granted." The girl followed his advice and was able to provide herself with gold, pearls, dresses, and food whenever she wanted them.

When the time came for the cave-festival, the step-mother went, leaving the girl to keep watch over the fruit-trees in the garden. She waited till the step-mother was some way off, and then went herself, wearing a cloak of stuff spun from kingfisher feathers and shoes made of gold. Her step-sister recognized her and said to the step-mother, "That's very like my sister." The step-mother suspected the same thing. The girl was aware of this and went away in such a hurry that she lost one shoe. It was picked up by one of the people of the cave. When the step-mother got home, she found the girl asleep, with her arms round one of the trees in the garden, and thought no more about it.

This cave was near to an island in the sea. On this island was a kingdom called T'o-han. Its soldiers had subdued twenty or thirty other islands and it had a coast-line of several thousand leagues. The cave-man sold the shoe in T'o-han, and the ruler of T'o-han got it. He told those about him to put it on; but it was an inch too small even for the one among them who had the smallest foot. He ordered all the women in his kingdom to try it on; but there was not one that it fitted. It was light as down and made no noise even when treading on stone. The king of T'o-han thought the cave-man had got it unlawfully. He put him in prison and tortured him, but did not end by finding out where it had come from. So he threw it down at the wayside. Then they went everywhere through the all the people's houses and arrested them. If there was a woman's shoe, they arrested them and told the king of T'o-han. He thought it strange, searched the inner-rooms and found Yeh-hsien. He made her put on the shoe, and it was true.

Yeh-hsien then came forward, wearing her cloak spun from halcyon feathers and her shoes. She was as beautiful as a heavenly being. She now began to render service to the king, and he took the fish-bones and Yeh-hsien, and brought them back to his country.

The step-mother and step-sister were shortly afterwards struck by flying stones and died. The cave people were very sorry for them and buried them in a stone-pit, which was called the Tomb of the Distressed Women. The men of the cave made mating-offerings there; any girl they prayed for there, they got. The king of T'o-han, when he got back to his kingdom made Yeh-hsien his chief wife. The first year the king was very greedy and by his prayers to the fish-bones got treasures and jade without limit. Next year, there was no response, so the king buried the fish-bones on the sea-shore. He covered them with a hundred bushels of pearls and bordered them with gold. Later there was a mutiny of some soldiers who had been conscripted and their general opened (the hiding-place) in order to make better provision for his army. One night they (the bones) were washed away by the tide.

---aikisenshi 04:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

it's amazing, i don't even know there is a translation! but as I said above, the original seems to have some problem: can you understand these sentences? "So he threw it down at the wayside. Then they went everywhere through the all the people's houses and arrested them. If there was a woman's shoe, they arrested them and told the king of T'o-han. He thought it strange, searched the inner-rooms and found Yeh-hsien. He made her put on the shoe, and it was true." they're confusing to me.--K.C. Tang 08:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
This is more appropriate for Wikisource than for this discussion page.Goldfritha 04:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standard version

The lede says:

the animated film from Walt Disney Productions, (see Cinderella (1950 film)) has become the standard contemporary version despite the fact that it somewhat sanitises the original plotline.

The "despite" is loaded. Why is it "despite" and not, say, "because of"? Is there any reason to believe that this "sanitising" was an obstacle to its being the standard version? Goldfritha 04:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Out it goes. Goldfritha 22:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

what about the mice? nobody ever mentions the namesof the mice!

[edit] Plot vs. variations

These two sections contain duplicate information. Either the variations should all be put in the plot section, or -- probably better -- all the variations should be dealt with separately. Goldfritha 22:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


I agree. The plot section is pretty confusing with description of numerous variations. Maybe better to have one of the versions chosen to put in the plot section, and all the variations in a separate section. Roy2005 12:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Once upon a time, there was a separate section. But with editors refusing to avoid putting stuff in the "synopsis" section there was no reason to segegrate some of it. (I collapsed the two some time after that.) Goldfritha 00:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Goldfirtha, the Variations is just too confusing. I added a brief summary of the plot (using Perrault's version which is the most common in English speaking countries), and will work on deleting duplicate information in the variations.Cbradshaw 07:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Origins?

Cinderella is mentioned in ST VI Undiscovered Country if I recall. Chekov said it was a Russian story. Is there any truth to this? An error, an intentional mistake? JohnathanZX4 18:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

      The reference in ST6 is an "inside joke", if you will, from the original series, where Chekov is *always* saying that whatever     
      is being discussed at that monent is actually a Russian invention. FlaviaR 07:00, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

cinderella can also be used to describe a person of great potentials what i mean by that is a person who have been able to move from rags to reaches. example you can say that a person has a cinderella spirit. by kelechi ibe

[edit] scandal

i think it is a scandal how this article tries to make "Cinderella" a global thing, mentioning the Grimm Brothers only in a few words. Bravo Wikipedians! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.163.37.82 (talk) 14:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

That's all well and fine but Cinderella is a pretty much global story. Although not all of the girls are called Cinderella, the story or stories existed as folk tales long before the Grimm Brothers wrote a story on it. Look it up, you'd be surprised on the amount of Cinderella tales there are.

[edit] Television Adaptations

I have seen a number of cartoons (beyond the short list) that feature some kind of adapration. The only one that really sticks out is an Alvin and the Chipmunks cartoon, where the entire episode was on the Chipettes, namely the red one who didn't do her fair share of the chores, and then enacted a Cinderella story in her mind. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.176.131.108 (talk) 05:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The Roman version of Aelian (2nd-3rd centuries AD)

Who has the Cinderella version by the ancient Roman writer Aelian? Unfortunately, there appears to be no translation online. Source: Aelian's "Varia historia", XIII, 33. I would appreciate it if someone could post his version. Regards Gun Powder Ma 21:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Discussion" section.

I reverted a deletion of text by Seraphimblade. I understand why he deleted the text, but it seems to me there is some valuable information there—the relationship between fair tales and human psychology is a subject that has been thoroughly studied. Can we edit/find citations for this material, rather than scrap the whole load of it? Fixer1234 04:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I note that some of it already had referecnes. Goldfritha 00:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shirley Climo

This work appears to be an adaptation. Moving it. Goldfritha 22:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed Statement ?

Hi. I noticed in the article that it said One can argue that this is undoubtedly one of the greatest stories in the history of story-telling times. I don't think anyone can prove that, so does that statement belong in the article? Blackcat52 19:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion section

I've removed the discussion section for a rethink.

Cinderella - Project Gutenberg etext 19993.jpg Caption was "The Fairy Godmother appears to Cinderella, illustrated in a 1927 story anthology"
The Cinderella tale is sometimes portrayed as a "rags-to-riches" tale. However, in fact, it is a "riches-to-rags-to-riches" tale; Cinderella, being the daughter of a rich merchant, is at first driven from her rightful patrimony, and the course of the fairy tale restores her to it. (ref Jane Yolen, p 33, Touch Magic ISBN 0-87483-591-7)
The tale has been interpreted as a psychological "splitting": by having both a dead mother and the all good benefactor, any feelings of resentment can be put onto the evil stepmother. (ref Maria Tatar, p 29, The Annotated Classic Fairy Tales, ISBN 0-393-05163-3)
The idea that "Cinderella" embodies myth elements was explored in The Uses of Enchantment (1989) by Bruno Bettelheim, who made many connections to the principles of Freudian psychology.
As Freudian analyses have come to be viewed as less scientific, Fact tag date=February 2007) mythographers have turned to trying to disentangle different cultural elements from different versions of the Cinderella tale. (Fact tag date=February 2007) Each social group, in re-telling "Cinderella", has emphasized or suppressed individual elements and has given them interpretations that are especially relevant within each society. Mythography return to Cinderella for hints of the social ethos embodied in it, and the familiar story proves to be a useful case example for young students beginning to understand how myth works. Thus serious uses come from what appears on the surface to be a trivial wish-fulfilment narrative.
Earlier, less self-consciously instructive Cinderellas have more revealing mythic content. (Fact tag date=April 2007)
The term Cinderella has originated from its storybook beginnings to become the name for a variety of female personalities. Some girls are described as a Cinderella if they are meek and immediately submissive to stern orders. Others are called Cinderella if they tend to complain quietly. For example, a girl from a wealthy household who has been ordered to wash the dishes as a fulfilment of her once-a-month chores would be deemed a Cinderella; a fallen princess who has finally met with tough reality. (Fact tag date=April 2007)
Cinderella, along with the more general "princess", are shorthand for a particular approach to wedding and Western wedding attire, especially the white dress. (Fact tag date=April 2007) A bride with the Cinderella mindset believes that the dress and the occasion exist in order that she may be transformed for the day into a beautiful princess. Detractors of such princess brides argue that the wedding is not solely about the bride; nevertheless, many wedding gown retailers appeal, directly or indirectly, to the Cinderella ideal.
The Cinderella story is much criticised for what many perceive to be a negative, traditionalistic approach to women. (ref Linda M. Scott, Fresh Lipstick: Redressing Fashion and Feminism p 165 ISBN 1-4039-6686-9) From the point of view of these critics Cinderella is oppressed, and does nothing about it; a magical event takes her to a powerful prince who is so taken with her appearance that he chooses her as his consort (it is assumed that she will accede), decorative, but existing only as an adjunct to him. They believe that she has no personality or character of her own; she is simply pretty and good-natured and mindlessly obedient, and advances because of this. Little girls in Western society are told the story: they can infer that if they are obedient and take care of their appearance they will live Happily Ever After. In J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows we learn that children brought up in wizarding households are totally ignorant of the Cinderella story. Presumably this is because witches are independent and strong-minded women, and do not want their daughters believing the way to solve their problems is to marry the right man.
On the other hand, others claim that the story should be taken on its own merit, to them Cinderella is not meant to be read into and critiqued as some complex academic social manifesto, but to be enjoyed as a fairy tale and its simple powerful message that good can come to decent people.
Going even further, many do not see Cinderella's personality or actions in a negative light. Simply that she has come under criticism because more confrontational headstrong heroines have become perceived as the new ideal of what a women is expected to be in Disney and American culture in general. To them, Cinderella has many admirable qualities, taking a more calm and discreet approach in fulfilling her wishes, and chooses to be kind even to those who mistreat her. Fact tag date=April 2007) In Perrault's own moral, he notes it is not enough to be pretty, but graciousness is what earned Cinderella her happy ending. He goes on to say that her intelligence, kindness, good breeding were not enough alone to assist Cinderella; the Godmother assisted her and the Prince was won over by her because of her graciousness. The reader is to take this lesson when applying the tale.

There's some good stuff here, but there are problems. Here's how I see it:

  • The title of the section, "Discussion", invites people to add their own opinions
  • I think there's evidence that some people have done just that, dressing them up in weasel words like "others claim...", "many do not see...", "the Cinderella mindset...", "each social group...has...", "Some girls are described as...", "what many perceive..." and so on.
  • There are some longstanding demands for citation that haven't been addressed either by removing the unsourced statement or providing a source.

On the other hand some statements in the early paragraphs are well sourced and refer to actual, concrete, commentary on the matter. There is more that could be added. Angela Carter's comments are nowhere to be seen in this section. For instance, she covered Cinderella in considerable depth in Ashputtle. And that's only one feminist commentator among many who have approached the story (if I dug deep enough in my bookshelves I'm sure I'd find commentaries by Susan Griffin and Andrea Dworkin).

But the point is that if we cover interpretations we do so properly, with sources and not vague handwaving. --Tony Sidaway 16:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Glass or fur : the ultimate answer

Firstly, I am French and French is my first language. I am dwelling on this point to avoid in advance any dispute of my understanding of that wonderful language. Most French kids (well, I at least) were told the story of Cendrillon while growing up. And our parents almost always unmistakably insisted that Cinderella's slippers were made of "vair" (which is the fur of a small animal similar to squirrels) and not of "verre" (i.e. glass). In fact, this is the ONLY instance in modern French where this very old word appears. This word is in fact so old, that it has long vanished from the common French vocabulary. It is well-known that the word was already obsolete when Perrault wrote his tale. Nevertheless, people insisted that the slippers were made of fur. Yet, Perrault's original version uses the word "verre". So... what happened? It's rather simple. Decades after Perrault wrote his version of the tale, several French intellectuals decided that glass slippers made no sense, thus assuming that Perrault had made a spelling error (for those of you who don't know French, the words "vair" and "verre" sound exactly the same in French), they changed Perrault's original wording. And so the error was born. If all one cares to know is the original word chosen by the author, then one need not look further: the slippers were crafted out of glass, whether or not this seems realistic. Beyond that, however, it is now widely believed that Perrault made NO error and that he did indeed intend to use the word "verre". Many reasons substantiate this reasoning. First off, the word "vair" was no longer used in Perrault's contemporary times. His readers would have most likely not understood the word "vair" any more than todays French kids do. Next, why should Perrault have made a spelling error? He was, after all, a confirmed writer and an educated scholar. There is absolutely no reason to a priori assume that he would fall into such a basic spelling trap. Finally, and more importantly, Perrault was writing a *fairy tale*, not a newspaper article. His imagination had pumpkins turn into horse carriages, mice into men, so why not common shoes into glass slippers? Especially since glass slippers are in perfect agreement with the story line stating that Cinderella is the *only* girl whom the slippers should fit. Plain fur slippers could easily be fitted to adapt to the feet of many girls. But glass slippers could only be crafted for a unique pair of feet. In conclusion, Perrault never wrote nor meant to bring fur slippers in his tale. He wrote, spelled, and meant "verre". The subsequent change to "vair" is nothing more than an imposed correction invented by some intellectuals who were lacking the necessary imagination to fully understand and appreciate this wonderful tale.

I hope my English is fluent enough to be read and understood by native anglophones. If not, please accept my apologies. I normally do not "pollute" the English Wikipedia with my bad English. I just felt compelled to share with you the above information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.72.93.5 (talk) 01:55, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edits, changes, cleanup

1. Added fact tag to "medieval Indo-Malay" version, as I'm not sure that "Anne de Fernandez" sounds medievally Indo-Malay in origin. Truthfully, each version of the story needs a reliable source documenting its historicity.

2. Moved the Aarne-Thompson classification to the plot section; it seemed to have less to do with "Origins and history" and more with what type of plot the story features.

3. Moved the Garner adaptation from "Origins and history" to the "Adaptations" section, where it belongs. Is his version "original"? Sure, but not in the sense of being the "origins" of the classic tale.

Probably more to come... Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 01:29, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

4. I removed one item from the "Books" list which was clearly an ad.

5. I did a copyedit on the Adaptations section; where I Americanized the spelling it was because I had already noted American spellings earlier in the article. Per WP Guidelines, I don't care which spelling system is used, as long as it's consistent within an article. Where I removed periods at the end of various list items, it was because those list items were not complete sentences. Feel free to re-add them if you think they should end with periods regardless.

6. Cite the assertion that Cinderella has the most adaptations, please. That's a huge claim to make.

7. Cite the assertion that Disney's version is the most popular or best-known or whatever. Another huge claim (believable in America, but perhaps questionable internationally).

8. Are all these adaptations really notable? See, for example, the YouTube listing, or the versions for which the editors couldn't be bothered to add any information beyond the title.

9. Downgraded "Films" section to the same heading level as all the other adaptation genres.

10. I trimmed the Coronation Street list item; I didn't think explaining the episode's ending was necessary here.

11. I deleted Bella at Midnight from the Books list, as no author was listed and the page was redlinked.

12. The Cinderella Project looks like a useful resource; the link should probably be posted in External Links and the Archive section deleted from the article.

13. I'm not convinced that the Archive section (while it exists at all) should be hierarchically under Adaptations; I compromised and moved it to be the last section.

14. Although I probably wasn't consistent about it (SO MANY edits to look for), I tried to remove the words "a song" under "Songs," "a film" under "Films," and so on.

But wait, there's more. I'm probably not going to come back and do this myself, but there are redundant wikilinks, inconsistencies in punctuation, missing relevant information (directors, artists, etc.) from several adaptations entries, non-notable adaptations, tons of citations needed... I hope my edits help. If I did something you didn't like (and I probably did), consider editing to fix that specific error rather than reverting the entire multi-hour session that I put into this. I really do think the article is stronger now; had I thought otherwise, I wouldn't have done all this work. Good luck. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 02:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revision to plot section

I reverted a recent edit to the plot section which greatly expanded the moral of the story. The reasoning behind this is that the moral comes from the cited source, which does not include the material I reverted. A source should be cited for anything as subjective as the "moral" of a story. Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 15:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

quite right. I adapted the whole plot summary from Perrault's tale, and it really should not be changed unless someone goes back to the original tale. Thanks, good work!Cbradshaw (talk) 15:43, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] expanded article lead

I read somewhere that article leads should essentially summarize the body of an article. I expanded the lead here to include a brief summary of the plot and a mention of its continuing influence on popular culture. I believe that all information I added is supported by the remainder of the article; still, a little voice in my head is whispering that I'm flirting with original research or at least unsourced claims. Please check and see if my revision can be improved. Thanks! Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 14:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)