Talk:Chumash people

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I noticed that there were 4 or 5 entries referencing the Chumash tribes in SoCal, but they all pointed to the Hebrew word of the same spelling. I started this brief stub(bette?) to differentiate betwixt the 2 and I hope someone more knowledgeable than I on this subject will elaborate.

If there's no objection, I will move this to Chumash. I've already pointed the redirect here, since not a single link to it was intended to refer to the Torah and I seriously doubt it will come up as often. (A quick disamb block at the top can be put in if someone honestly believes that anyone would link to Chumash to get to the Torah.) --Brion

Having heard no objection, it is so moved. --Brion 21:13 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

Contents 1 classification 2 Polynesian contact 3 Chumash identity claims 4 Identity of man in illustration

[edit] classification

Even Hokanists no longer accept Chumash as Hokan. The Chumash shared a few words for easily borrowed cultural items, such as shell-bead money, with their Esselen neighbors, and the Esselen were tentatively ID'd as Hokan, but that's hardly a basis for classification. --kwami 09:49, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Polynesian contact

This text:

• Possible pre-Columbian contact with Polynesians
• Recent research indicates that the Chumash may have been visited by Polynesians between AD 500 and 700, nearly 1,000 years before Christopher Columbus reached North America. [1]

Has been removed over and over again with no explanation. It is sourced, and attributed, and qualifed. Whoever wants to remove it should give their reasons. -Will Beback 08:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I've been intended on writing an article on Chumash canoe making, which is associated with this possible contact. Will try to include this in my searches on the topic. WBardwin 20:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I have managed to find a pretty reputable source on the canoe topic, I think. For now -- from Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact: Recently, linguist Kathryn A. Klar of UC Berkeley and archaeologist Terry L. Jones of Cal Poly San Luis Obispo have proposed contacts between Polynesians and the Chumash and Gabrielino of southern California, between 500 and 700. Their chief evidence is the advanced sewn-plank canoe design, which is used throughout the Polynesian Islands, but is unknown in North America — except for those two tribes. Moreover, the Chumash word for "sewn-plank canoe," tomolo'o, may have been derived from kumulaa'au, the Polynesian word for the Redwood logs used in that construction.

A quick look at the page's history shows a lot of vandalism and reverting. It looks like the polynesian theory text got lost over the course of multiple blankings and then revertings. Perhaps it was not intended to be removed and just got lost in the vandal-revert shuffle. I'll try to put something about it back in, with some sources. Interesting idea. Pfly (talk) 21:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I added a brief mention of the polynesian theory, well sourced and footnoted, but it was removed by IP user 68.6.108.39 with no reason given. I'm going to revert the article back. If someone wants to remove this info could you please explain why? I don't understand. Thanks. Pfly (talk) 01:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Huh, 68.6.108.39 removed it again with no reason given. I hate edit wars, so I'm done. Pfly (talk) 17:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Pfly - Don't give up. I'll play defense for awhile. I reverted all the anon's edits and left a note for him/her as well. Everyone else keep an eye out as well, please. WBardwin (talk) 00:42, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chumash identity claims

In the 1980's there were actually two groups which claimed to be Chumash; one group claiming that the other group were actually descendants of Spanish soldiers... AnonMoos (talk) 00:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Identity of man in illustration

An anon IP editor has been asserting that this man is Rafael Solares, a Samala Chumash man. While certainly possible, I have not found our present image on the internet and the only image of Rafael Solares found is in a very different pose. I would encourage the editor to provide a source for information on this photograph, a book or perhaps a museum? WBardwin (talk) 05:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi User:Onokok! You assert personal knowledge saying "Raphael Solares was my grand father. He was Captain of Soxtonoxmu a Village in the Santa Ynez Valley." If you know where this photograph is held and if your grandfather is identified there or if he is tied to this photo in any other publication, the information can be included in the article. It is really difficult to support personal information here, as policy requires information to be verifiable. Is there a published family or tribal history? Thanks for your help. WBardwin (talk) 07:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Onokok says the photo in question is found and identified in Gibson, Robert O. The Chumash (Indians of North America), Chelsea House Publications, 1990, ISBN: 1555467008. Anyone have access to a copy to obtain the page number of this specific photograph? Thanks. WBardwin (talk) 22:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The picture in question is indeed Rafael Solares Captain of Soxtonoxmu he is making stone projectile points. The picture was taken by French scientist Leon de Cessac in the late 19th century. Solares was an invaluable source of information on traditional Chumash culture, as are his family members that are alive today. The picture can be found on page 20 of Chapter 1 Discovering North America. He is also featured on page 12 of the same chapter. User: Taxama 05/30/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.171.168.20 (talk) 06:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I can confirm this as well. The man in the picture is Samala leader Rafael Solares, Captain of the village of Soxtonoxmu. His picture can be found in the book Onokok referenced to on Page 20. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yowoyo (talk • contribs) 10:56, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! WBardwin (talk) 03:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)