Talk:Christopher Tolkien

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I picked up the November 21 date from http://www.tolkienworld.de/zwkriege.html, and it's also cited on other sites (not any English ones, curiously), dunno if that makes it more or less authoritative than the February date in imdb. I don't have Tolkien's bio though, sigh, perhaps it's mentioned in there. Maybe Christopher has a email address... Stan 04:10 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

According to IMDb, he's changed his name and is in hiding because the Tolkien fans wouldn't leave him alone. -- Zoe

IMDb is wrong, having picked up 'facts' from the British press, which seems to write almost nothing but fabrications about CRT. I have it directly from CRT himself that he does not and has never used an assumed name.Solicitr 13:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

the tolkien bio by humphrey carpenter has CJRT's birthdate as November 1924. -- Esk 01:38, 2004 Apr 14 (UTC)

Hammond & Scull's Chronology confirms CRT's birthdate as 21 November 1924.Solicitr 13:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

According to an interview with Simon Tolkien (http://www.simontolkien.com) his father was 77 in 2003. This would make his birthdate sometime in 1926. Also CRTs first wife was named Faith and they divorced in 1964 when Simon was 5. CRT moved to southern France post JRRTs death and married his second wife in 1972???

No, Christopher married Baillie Klass in 1967 (ref. Hammond & Scull, The JRRT Tolkien Companion and Guide)Solicitr 13:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

One thing that has struck me is that Tolkien (jr) is here referred to as "Christopher." Would it not be more encyclopaedic to use some other name, such as "Tolkien," despite the risk of confusing him with his father? It sounds like calling Shakespeare for "William."Hinakana 17:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Either say "Tolkien" if the context makes clear which Tolkien you are referring to, or, if there is a possibility of confusion, say "Christopher Tolkien" for the son and "J. R. R. Tolkien" for the father. You are correct that "Christopher" and "Ronald" would be too informal for an encyclopedia article. Carcharoth 12:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Does the horizontal scroll bar at the bottom of the family tree serve any purpose? It does not appear to, and should probably be removed.

Contents 1 Hatred for CJRT 2 Opposition to Movies 3 Date of Children of Hurin 4 Grandchildren 5 Wife and religion 6 Middle name "John"

[edit] Hatred for CJRT

I've noticed that quite a few people hate - yes, really hate - CJRT and his works, although I've never understood what he may have done to deserve all this reluctance. Since a Swedish news agency telegram announced that "The Children of Húrin" will be published this spring a majority of the Swedish blog commentaries have been negative, many of them focusing on CJRT and his person. Also, in several discussion forums I participate in, mentioning CJRT or The Silmarillion will provoke sour reactions. Is CJRT hatred a Swedish phenomenon or is it so widespread that it can be mentioned in a Wikipedia article? (References?) /192.121.234.65 06:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The specific dislike of CRT in Sweden appears to be the result of the activities of Ake Ohlmarks (translator of The Lord of the Rings), who developed a near-pathological hatred of the Tolkien family, even alleging that they were Satan-worshippers who had their critics murdered! Ohlmarks had already gone off the deep end by 1972; but his hatred really focussed on CRT when the latter made it clear that Ohlmarks would absolutely, positively not be allowed to do the Swedish translation of The Silmarillion.

In the broader Tolkien world, there have always been differences of opinion about the 'constructed' Silmarillion CRT compiled by "selecting and arranging" from his father's many, many competing versions. It seems to me that by publishing both the 1977 text and the History of Middle-earth (which contains the original source-texts), CRT has let us have our cake and eat it too. Solicitr 17:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I have spoken with a number of folk who have a strong dislike of CJRT--not for his work, but for his apparently overactive legal team. In some cases, people I met claim to have been threatened with lawsuits (in at least one instance, even after gaining permission from the legal team beforehand) simply for writing about or teaching using materials from J.R.R. Tolkien's vast assortment. Meanwhile, it seems the man (or his lawyers) are constantly threatening to sue everyone from commentators to New Line Cinemas for nonpayment and the creation of unauthorized derivative works and the like (which, incidentally seems to fly in the face of J.R.R.'s intentions so far as I can discern them--given that he sold the rights to filmmaking for dirt cheap and also that he supposedly wanted to encourage the creation of a broad culture of myth, folklore, music, etc from fans). However, the anecdotal evidence probably doesn't belong in wikipedia, I'm afraid. 192.103.41.201 (talk) 21:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

This is the main reason I hear people complaining of Christopher & the Tolkien estate. The Jade Knight (talk) 22:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

seems to fly in the face of J.R.R.'s intentions so far as I can discern them--given that he sold the rights to filmmaking for dirt cheap and also that he supposedly wanted to encourage the creation of a broad culture of myth, folklore, music, etc from fans)

Not so at all. For all the popularity of the 'other hands' quotation, which the elderly Tolkien used to describe his youthful ideals decades before, in real life JRRT was fiercely protective of his copyrights, and detested 'fanfic.' NB: it turns out the old Professor held out for a better movie deal than anybody knew- and only did so because (1) he was confronted with a huge tax bill, w/o ready cash, and (2) he was convinced that the movie couldn't possibly be made, at least in hid lifetime (correctly)Solicitr (talk) 14:18, 27 May 2008 (UTC).

"it turns out the old Professor held out for a better movie deal than anybody knew" - do we have a reliable source yet to put this in any articles? Carcharoth (talk) 01:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Opposition to Movies

How could, as the article claims, Christopher Tolkien be opposed to the making of movies based on Lord of the Rings? The first movie based on Lord of the Rings was made in 1978, just five years after JRR's death. Surely Christopher had some control over the rights at the time. --207.161.18.54 03:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

-- CRT had no control whatsoever. JRR Tolkien sold the film rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings in 1969: his heirs have no control over them, and get no money either.

---Okay, maybe they do get money (in theory).Solicitr (talk) 02:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

It's interesting. Especially with the lawsuit. I had suspected there was always some money involved. Carcharoth (talk) 01:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Date of Children of Hurin

This needs to be corrected: the press, sloppy as ever, garbled the fact that JRRT wrote the *earliest version* of the Turin-story in 1918 or 19. The texts from which The Children of Hurin was assembled date from ca. 1951-57.

No, it doesn't. Tolkien actually wrote Turambar and the Foalókë around 1918, see The Book of Lost Tales. In 1951 he began writing an expanded version, from which CoH is mainly derived. Súrendil 18:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

As currently phrased, it's very misleading. "Based on notes" implies some sort of Brian Herbert job, when in fact CoH was made up from more-or-less complete narrative texts sutured together. And "based on" notes "1918-59" is simply wrong, since not one jot nor tittle of Turambar and the Foaloke was used in assembling the 2007 text: it's simply an antecedent. Nor is it correct tha CRT spent "30 years" on it (the Fourth Estate at work again, garbling the statement that CRT has spent over 30 years editing his father's papers). He didn't start work on CoH until 2004 at the earliest.

I would propose "In April 2007 Christopher published a "new" book by his father, The Children of Hurin, which Tolkien had written between 1951-57 and brought to a relatively completed stage before he abandoned it. The story of Turin Turambar is one of the oldest elements in the legendarium, its earliest version dating back to 1918." Solicitr 17:28, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and made the edit, daring incoming brickbats Solicitr 13:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grandchildren

New family information: Adam has a son Dimitri, born 2005, and Rachel has a son Samuel, born 2006.71.176.233.43 20:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wife and religion

Anybody know if he is catholic? and the name of his first wife and what happend to her? Why isn't that in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.90.216.106 (talk) 19:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

CRT first married Faith Faulconbridge (1928- ). She is a sculptor, especially on Christian and Catholic themes. The couple separated ca. 1964; their marriage was "dissolved" 1967. I don't know if that refers to civil divorce or Church annulment.Solicitr 17:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Didn't she do the bust of Tolkien (senior) that is in the Bodleian Library? Carcharoth (talk) 01:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Middle name "John"

I suggest that it should be removed from the lead; the last sentence of para. 1 explains it adequately, and it is indeed the fact that CT does not use it. A quick look at his copyright pages and legal documents shows that he consistently goes by "Christopher Reuel Tolkien" or "Christopher R. Tolkien."Solicitr 12:22, 15 October 2007 (UTC)