Talk:Christology

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[edit] Difficulty

This article will be as hard to write as Christianity because there are so many various christological views.

Christology is important, because Christians who belive in the Trinity . . .

Like I said, hard to write

Nice job, Wesley. If you can flesh it out and make it more substantial, I won't wine about it. I cast my lot with you, if you can bear this cross . . . Ed Poor getting silly, so it's time to sign off.

[edit] Messianic Jews

"A number of early Christians believed that Jesus was not divine, but was simply the human Messiah promised in the Old Testament. The inclusion of the genealogies of Jesus Christ at Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 are sometimes explained by this belief. An alternative explanation is that they were in opposition to Gnostic Christian doctrines that Jesus Christ only had the illusion of a human body and, thus, no human ancestry at all. This view was opposed by church leaders such as Paul, and eventually came to be held only by small, marginal sects such as the Ebionites and (according to Jerome) the Nazarenes."

I think the last sentence here should relate to the first sentence and not the one it follows (i.e. the Nazarenes and Ebionites believed Jesus was human and not an illusion). Can someone who knows more reorder / rephrase to make things more clear? DopefishJustin 22:44, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Jesus

In order to try to work out the relationship between all the various pages and hopefully get some consensus, I have opened a WikiProject to centralize discussion and debate. We've got several "conflicted" pages at the moment, and without centralizing discussion, it's going to get very confusing. Please join the project, if you're interested in the topic, and start discussions on the talk page. (We need to create a to-do list, but I think the current state is too conflicted to decide even that.) Mpolo 10:49, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

The last bullet point is only 1 word. Sentence needs to be finished. CheeseDreams 21:45, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Would it be helpful to briefly list some significant dates with the various christologies, try to give a sense of their historical development? Each is fully described in its own article, but this one might help to pull them together. Or, what other questions should the article answer? Wesley 22:54, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If there are no other suggestions for expanding this article, I'll remove the request for expansion from the top of the article once the VfD is finished.
Since there have been no further specific suggestions for expanding this article, and the vfd is finished, I'm removing the 'request for expansion' tag from the top of the article. If someone can explain what they think the article is lacking, that would probably warrant putting the tag back. Wesley 04:46, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Undeleting

I'm "undeleting" this article. It stands on its own and is an important topic in its own right, and should not be merged with another. It should not be a candidate for "speedy deletion." Wesley 07:21, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It also shouldn't be listed on WP:VFD. I think it deserves a separate article, but at the very least it needs to survive as a redirect. Before anyone makes it a redirect, perhaps we could discuss it here? --G Rutter 17:03, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Ask Topic in Christology

Is there any topic in Christology on "the life of Jesus", its effect or influence to any society, country, in a broad sense.Roscoe x 09:42, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I believe that most discussions of Christology discuss Jesus' effect on humanity as a whole, rather than on any one society or country. The closest you might come is the question of whether he was fully human or not. If not, then his impact on our earthly life would be regarded as negligible; if so, then the theologian would be more likely to say our entire humanity has been "redeemed" or "transformed," including our culture. So a person's christology can have indirect effects on what they think about, say, whether to respect their own body or other people's bodies, and other social issues. Also, those that believe in a future "second coming" of Jesus (see Christian eschatology) would expect him to have a far greater personal influence on the societies and countries of this world when he returns. Wesley 17:08, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Logos

Is it possible to have a more comprehensive treatment of the christian meaning of the word Logos in this article. The current article on Logos is pretty poor from a christian standpoint. It would be better to redirect to Logos subsection in here, rather than to a more general article on the word Logos, IMO. --Randolph 01:04, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Randolph, while part of me agrees with you, I would suggest they be kept seperate. Logos and Christology are distict (abeit closely related) concepts in Christian theology. Further, one comes from biblical theology, the other from postive systematic theology. I do, however, believe they should logically be linked to one another. DaveTroy

[edit] Can of Worms

The statement that the doctrine of original sin is a 'can of worms' is not NPOV! I would recommend reverting the edits of 152.91.9.213 on 16th January 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Davidfraser (talk • contribs) .

The section of the article on questions relating to Christ's humanity lacks the objectivity typical of Wikipedia articles. Issues with Christ's humanity are certainly serious. One can argue that this was on of the major issues with Arius. In focusing on Catholics and Calvinists, the article takes a position that is not representative of usual Christian theology. After all, the usual concept of original sin doesn't say that the image of God was abolished, just seriously corrupted. The possibility of being healed is there in human nature, although original sin prevents this possibility from being realized without God's action through Christ. I would hate to see the article deleted. The subject is important. The various potential authors no doubt do not agree. But that doesn't prevent other articles from presenting the major viewpoints responsibly. This one has a bit too visible an axe. I agree that the edits from 152.91.9.213 should be removed. The section title added is a good one, but almost all of the text is bad enough that we'd be better off without it.Hedrick 04:22, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This is not _the_ "Messianic Jewish view

"There is also the Messianic Jewish view that Yeshuwah and YHWH are the same entity, with Ruach haQodesh and 'Elohiym being separate parts of the Godhead. YHWH appears in the TaNaKh, while Yeshuwah is the incarnate form of YHWH found in the Briyth Chadashah. In this view, Yeshuwah is born fully man and becomes fully God upon His baptism by Ruach haQodesh (symbolizing our inclusion into the family of God upon our own baptism with Ruach haQodesh)."

Most modern Messianic's tend to be traditional Trinitarians, although there are some who espouse Oneness, Arianism, or the belief Yeshua/Jesus was only a man. The above position is not the majority view and should not be presented as such. In my estimation the above position is a kabalistic-sacred name-messianic variant and cannot categorically be associated with Jewish-Christian Messianism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.67.117.180 (talk • contribs) .


[edit] POV

Take a look at this--Striver 17:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Support--Striver 19:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

This article has a definite point of view. I am surprised it was not deleted. I am assuming that the writer comes from a Reformed Christian background. If I am incorrect, the very fact that I feel I know the author's background is significant. I doubt if Encyclopedia Brittanica would read the way this does. A neutral article would be great. Perhaps we need a non-Christian to write it.75Janice 04:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)75Janice 20 January 2007


The section on "Resurrection" in particular seems to end on a POV note:

"It is doubtful that they intentionally fabricated a resurrection story. Not only were they putting their lives in danger, but the concept of resurrection was only understood by Jews in the context of a resurrection for Israel as a whole at the end of the world. An individual’s resurrection was not a Jewish teaching.[14] How did this scared group instantly change into a “dedicated missionary troop?”[15] Jesus’ resurrection changed these men who in turn began to change the world." 134.82.97.14 02:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section on Controversies concerning attibution or denial of Christ's human nature

4th para. "It could be argued..." (sic)) is ripe for deletion wout citation as unverifiable & POV according to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy.

From 8th para. on: tendentious style ("would argue.."), lack of balance, & lack of citation look like POV or OR, ripe for deletion according to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy.

These questions have been thoroughly aired historically. Wiki requires Wikipedia:Verifiability. Thomasmeeks 03:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree, the whole section starting at "It could also be argued ..." sounds very moch like POV (or, at best, OR). I left it when I wrote, not wanting to change too much in the article at one time, but would support its removal. Pastordavid 22:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I am removing the section in question, as POV or OR. Pastordavid 07:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re-Write

I have re-written portions of thie article, with two purposes in mind. (1) Clarifying the distinction between Trinitarian debates (theological concepts having to do with how the persons of the Trinity relate to one another) and Christological debates (theological concepts dealing with how the divine and human relate in the person of Jesus); and (2) making the article more accessible to those with no background.

I have attempted to retain all content that was here before (even if it was re-arranged). My re-write focused on the first half of the article, the second half still needs some work. Pastordavid 22:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section: Christological views reflected in names and titles of Jesus

Most of this section seems to belong in Names and titles of Jesus in the New Testament, the rest in Christogram. If there are no pressing reasons for them to be duplicated here, I will remove those sections. Pastordavid 07:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Information not on Names and titles of Jesus in the New Testament transferred there, the rest removed. Pastordavid 10:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Links

Rather than simply remove questionable links, I thought that as they are removed, people could place them here for discussion and consensus. Pastordavid 20:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] High Christology slant?

I note that major references are to Donald Macleod, who I believe finds, contrary to the consensus of most biblical scholars, that there is considerable evidence for Christ's pre-existence in the synoptic gospels. Does this exaggerate the evidence for a high Christology? Jim Lacey 15:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christology after the holocaust?

I think there should be at least a blurb about how Christology can be perceived as anti-Judaic, and how some scholars are calling for its current form to be revised —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hwestbrook (talk • contribs) 02:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)