Talk:Christmas truce

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Stories like this truely do show that even in the worst times there is still goodness in mankind.

merry christmas —thames 16:50, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Humans are absurd. I still don't know whether to love them because of it or in spite of it, but love them I do. 82.92.119.11 22:21, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

'The truce spread to other areas of the lines, and there is a perhaps apocryphal story of a football match between the opposing forces, which ended when the ball struck a strand of barbed wire and deflated. Letters home confirm the score of one game to be 3-2 in favour of Germany.' I think I understand what this means but its a bit confusing. It sounds as if all of the stories are apocyphal at first... Perhaps someone who knows could make it better.

Contents 1 Picture 2 Opposition from higher ranks 2.1 Later 3 More Legacy in Song 4 Erm 5 Recent article on letter about truce auctioned 6 After the Truces 7 The French 8 The Ginger Cat 9 Another song reference 10 Other instances of WWI Fraternization? 11 The Selfish Gene - Book Link Reappearing 12 Wiki for the Blind 13 poetic yet POV?

[edit] Picture

Can anyone find a picture of the footbal game in action? I remember hearing from the History Channel that an english newspaper published an article about it and took some pictures. Im sure they are in the Public Domain now, and would spruce up the article. --ThrashedParanoid 00:47, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Opposition from higher ranks

I have read recently (sorry, can't recall where) that there was no opposition at the time to the Christmas Truce from higher ranks; indeed that it was encouraged as an aid to morale. Obviously, if true, this attitude changed later - the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4123107.stm) states that it was the advent of gas attacks that changed attitudes. However, I think the statements in the text that the truce was opposed at the time by higher ranks needs to be supported.

[edit] Later

I've found a bit more information at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/10/98/world_war_i/197627.stm where it specifically states that while some generals opposed the truce, others felt it was a good thing.

[edit] More Legacy in Song

Under the Category Legacy, I think it's appropriate to mention the song by The Royal Guardsmen called "Snoopy's Christmas"? A similar exchange, probably inspired by this story, takes place between Snoopy and The Red Baron (a major WWI icon). Some information (including lyrics) about this song can be found here: http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=4085 What kind of credibility a webpage has to have in order to link to that page as a credible "source"? Do any well-known 'lyrics' and song webpages have that credibility? Any help is appreciated!

Mykar15 17:14, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Erm

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jul2003/xmas-j17.shtml But gradually, through threats and further orders, the generals broke the truce. Instrumental was the ruthlessness of such men as Billy Congreve of the 3rd Division, north of Kemmel, who wrote, at the height of the truce:

“We have issued strict orders to the men, not on any accounts allow a ‘truce,’ as we have heard they will try to. The Germans did try. They came over towards us singing. So we opened rapid fire on them, which is the only sort of truce they deserve.” [11]

But inducing men who had become friends to kill each other was not such an easy task. Many units on both sides were reluctant to restart the fighting. And even as shooting resumed, apologies and coded messages were being exchanged. On December 30, following an anti-fraternisation order from the German High Command, the following message was relayed by German soldiers to the trenches opposite:

“Dear Camarades, I beg to inform you that it is forbidden us to go out to you, but we will remain your comrades. If we will be forced to fire we will fire too high... Offering you some cigars, I remain, yours truly...” [12]

Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 11:09, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this an example of anti-imperialism?--Darrelljon 21:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I don’t think most of the troops put it a wide enough context for that to come up. Seano1 22:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent article on letter about truce auctioned

I thought someone might want to incorporate information from this [1] into this article. I am a little too busy to do it right now. Remember 17:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The link above no longer works but it strikes me if this section is going to use one Christmas Truce letter as an example or first-hand account there are many better ones than the Chris De Burgh letter (which is probably only famous because of the inflated auction price!). Truce letters frequently come up for auction but the research by our volunteers ([2]) details dozens of truce letters. My suggestion would be a letter by one Private Heath [3] which, as well as being beautifully written, details the truce from start to finish. Misterbus (talk) 21:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] After the Truces

Many times after the Christmas truces and similar events, since the soilders were often reluctant to restart the fighting and formed commradery higher ups would occasionally make the decision to move the soilders to different parts of the front or to shift them towards the rear. This was intended to seperate them from those they befriended and hopefully return them to thier previous fighting condition. Lupin da 3rd 06:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The French

What did the French do with the Germans on their part of the line, or say about the behaviour of the British? Jim.henderson 18:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Ginger Cat

"The film also features a foraging ginger cat adopted as a mascot by both the French and the Germans. The cat existed, and, in real life, it was arrested by the French, convicted of espionage and shot in accordance with military regulations. "It was an era of madmen," says Carion, who filmed this scene -- to the great distress of his extras -- but decided not to include it in case his audience didn't believe it. " http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec05/Soldz1231.htm

Can this be substantiated. I would be an interesting inclusion if it could.

[edit] Another song reference

The Farm's All Together Now [4] is about the Christmas Day Truce.

--Schmackdown 14:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other instances of WWI Fraternization?

I haven't yet had a chance to investigate it, further, but judging from the documentary material included with Joyeux Noel, there seems to be evidence of quite a bit of fraternization during 1914 and early 1915, and not just on Christmas, specifically of 1914. I can't seem to find any mention on Wikipedia, however, of any events other than the Christmas '14 ones. Should this article be a more general article about WWI fraternization, and not just about the Christmas Truce? -- ABPend 07:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Well my para re the French-German Christmas truce of 1915 from Richard Schirrmann has been obliterated, so I shall have to put it back! Hugo999 (talk) 07:01, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Selfish Gene - Book Link Reappearing

Someone, keeps entering what appears to be an advert, but which is most certainly an offtopic link, to a book called "The Selfish Gene", this has no reference to the text, and no contextual content contributing to the article.

I have removed the link, and now had to undo a revision putting that reference back in.

Xelous —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xelous (talk • contribs) 17:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it should be a citation, because its the source for the "informal armistice" section. It used to be a citation, but somehow it got uncited. No, not an advert, its a pretty famous book, I doubt Richard Dawkins or his publishers are spending time on wikipedia plugging the book. I would cite it, but I havn't edited in a while and I forget how to do a proper cite. Brentt (talk) 02:13, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki for the Blind

I am 19 years old and blind. I am interested in adding relevant items to wiki that help the blind "visualize" and grasp the subjects at hand. I love the tradition of oral storytelling. I have added a link to a radio story by The American Storyteller. --Trgwilson (talk) 16:20, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] poetic yet POV?

I don't like this bit very much: The Christmas Truce has been characterized as the last "twitch" of the nineteenth century: the last moment when, in war, two sides would meet each other in proper and mutual respect; when they would greet each other with kindness to show that — in spite of the horrible turn of events that had unfolded — they were still honorable and respectful soldiers of war. By portraying the soldiers as acting as "honorable and respectful soldiers of war" as opposed to the oppositely POV "simple human beings exhausted by the horrors of an absurd war, unconcerned for such nonsensical trinkets as 'honor'", the paragraph is making a blatant political statement. Unless someone can come up with a reference to get rid of the weaselish "has been characterized", I think it should be done away with. --kine (talk) 03:21, 7 May 2008 (UTC)