Talk:Christmas and holiday season

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 31/8/2006. The result of the discussion was keep.
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on November 23, 2006. The result of the discussion was Keep.

Contents

[edit] Revision

The citations that the new revision provides are inadequate in supporting the name "Winter holiday season". The main source that apparently supports the "History" section, only uses the term "winter holiday season" once, and uses Christmas or New Year's Day the rest of the time. The term "Winter holiday season" is a neologism and this "History" section is misleading and inaccurate. I continue to support its deletion and hope others that read this discussion will as well. The term has no place at Wikipedia— OLP 1999 15:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Winter holiday season not only doesn't refer exactly to Christmas or New Year's Day, but also doesn't discount Valentine's Day (or President's Day), either (Valentine's Day is February 14, which is still in the winter season for the Northern Hemisphere). Basically, the winter holiday season can refer to any time between December 1 and March 1 (the winter quarter of the year), with there being a temporary lull between mid-January and early February. --Videowizard2006 19:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard anyone refer to Valentine's Day or Presidents' Day as a 'winter holiday'. Schools take 'Winter Holidays' to avoid mentioning Christmas, just as they take 'Spring Holidays' to avoid mentioning Easter. 'Holiday Season' is often used to include Hanukkah, Christmas and New Year's, but I'm not sure that justifies an article. -- Donald Albury 12:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that it does not justify an article on its own; hence the merge request. — Sebastian (talk) 16:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if I'm making this suggestion the right way, I'm new here, but the phrase "the Christmas season[1][2][3], is the religion-neutral designation" should be changed. Better: "...the Christmas season[1][2][3], is both a religious and a religion-neutral designation 66.82.9.74

[edit] Merge with Christmas season

I put these tags in the articles before I read the above discussion. Now I'm not sure into which article the merge should be made. Anyway, apart from the name discussion, the two articles seem to cover the same phenomenon. — Sebastian (talk) 06:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete/merge into Christmas season. (see this article's new AfD)
Comments—The term "(winter) holiday season" violates WP:NEO and is merely a politically correct alternative of the term "Christmas season". Use of the term is notable only in the United States, and is usually used so as "not to exclude anyone during the commercialized Christmas". As someone pointed out above, the mere fact that this so-called season doesn't include such actual winter holidays as Valentine's Day, Chinese New Year or St. Patrick's Day proves that the "winter holiday season" is only used as a completely secular, generic reference to Christmastime. I've even seen "After-Holiday sales" on December 26, and of course all the "holiday commercials" stop airing after Christmas Day, even though New Year's Day (supposedly part of the holiday season) is still a week away. A simple solution here would to introduce the Christmas season article with "Christmas season, also known as winter holiday season". It's ridiculous to have two articles about the same thing—look at the "holiday tree" term being used in the US...these neologisms are merely politically correct "status quo" euphemisms and are not merited to have an article. But aside from my personal convictions, the point is that if you read WP:NEO you will see that this article surely violates it, try to find "holiday season" in a dictionary. This article is about as productive as creating a new article called Holiday (holiday) and having it be about all the secular aspects of Christmas, since all the media often refers to "Christmas" as "Holiday".
Here's the precise paragraph from WP:NEO that outlines the fact that the research conducted for creation for this article is not sufficient for creating an article and thus should be removed:
"An editor's personal observations and research (e.g. finding blogs and books that use the term) are insufficient to support use of (or articles on) neologisms because this is analysis and synthesis of primary source material (which is explicitly prohibited by the original research policy). To paraphrase Wikipedia:No original research: If you have research to support the inclusion of a term in the corpus of knowledge that is Wikipedia, the best approach is to arrange to have your results published in a peer-reviewed journal or reputable news outlet and then document your work in an appropriately non-partisan manner."— OLP 1999 04:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The result of the discussion was keep. As a consequence, I think we should:

  • change "Christmas season" into a disambiguation between the two meanings (and Advent),
  • make "Christmastide" the title for the page on the liturgical meaning, and
  • move the first half of Christmas season to Winter holiday season. — Sebastian (talk) 05:40, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
  • A very quick and superficial scan for sources reveals (example example) that the part of the Christian liturgical year is indeed known as "Christmastide". This was in fact the original title, in 2004, of Christmas season. So I agree. Let's take out the two paragraphs about shopping and films, rename it back to Christmastide, and have a disambiguation at Christmas season, whose meaning differs between Christmastide and Advent in any event it appears. Note that much of the content in those two paragraphs to be removed is already here in better — sourced — form. What isn't already here, I'd like add here only if we can base it upon sources, as everything else here is, rather than simply merging in as-is. Uncle G 12:27, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] January sales

Actually, the January sales do belong here, and are part of the holiday shopping season. Retailers and economists regard them as being so. And they are not solely closeout sales, partly because of the manufacture of sale-specific lines (as mentioned for Germany) and partly given the existence of gift certificates. See this, this, this, and this, for a few of the many examples of how the January sales are considered to be an integral part of the whole season. Uncle G 12:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Southern hemisphere

So what about those of us who celebrate what you call the "Winter holiday season" in summer? It seems that by being PC you can't please everyone. -- Chuq 01:29, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disgusting PC rubbish

This artical is, to be honest disgustingly PC, its not racist to call Christmas 'Christmas', and calling it anything else only infuriates people, and increases support for the Far Right. We really do need to rename this artical --Boris Johnson VC 16:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Come on - the article covers ten other festivals in addition to Christmas - you think we should label Hanukkah as Christmas? Hut 8.5 18:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
No, i never said that, i think that all the major festivals should have there own articals. It is pretty clear that this artical is mainly about Christmas, but it goes about it in a very PC way--Boris Johnson VC 19:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
This article is not about calling Christmas other names, or even about names at all. This article is about the Winter holiday season, as discussed in the sources that it cites. Uncle G 21:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yuletide season

Given all the arguments maybe Yuletide season would be the best name. See Yule for the history of the term. While it is in modern terms often associated with Christmas, its original meaning was tied more to the time of year (winter solstice) and the seasonal issues are often tied not only to the holidays themselves, but the lack of light and the depth of winter.
In other words this time of year has been a holiday, and an issue since before Christmas. —MJBurrage • TALK • 19:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Completely disagree. That term is nowhere near as notable as "Christmas season" or "holiday season". We should keep the title as is. Steven Evens (talk) 16:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)