Talk:Christianity in the Middle East

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[edit] Malta

Okay, to what extend should Malta be discussed in the article? And yeah, this shouldn't just be a dab page, but maybe it's a good start, just to get an overview of the many churches before we really begin. Funkynusayri (talk) 21:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, for starters, are Maltese people actually Arabs? Are they considered a Middle Eastern people? Malta isn't in the Middle East though, so that could be a problem, and their creed is definitely not of a Middle Eastern variety (it's Roman Catholicism). I think we should list the different churches in a dab like fashion, and from there, begin expanding it into a real article. What about the Kurdish Christians? Do they have a Kurdish Church? Also, I think we should include ethnic Persians who are Christians, and possibly also Greek Orthodox Christians in Eritrea. — EliasAlucard (talk · contribs) 21:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually, if we re-name the Arab Christians article to Arab-speaking Christians, the Maltese should be dealt with there, and not here. I think the confusion over the many sects and places made me ignore the obvious...

But yes, I think every Christian church and community in the Middle Eats should be dealt with in this particular article, so let's see how far we get... Maybe also syncretic ones should be briefly mentioned, like Alawism and the religion of the Shabak people, and odd, Christianity linked religions like Mandaeism. Druze are apparently gnostic, don't know if they have anything to do with Christianuty.

There is apparently a Kurdish Church, look under Christian Kurds. Funkynusayri (talk) 21:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the Maltese issue. I already looked in that article (actually skimmed through it) and couldn't any Kurdish Church. — EliasAlucard (talk · contribs) 21:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
  • There was this: "The Kurdish-Speaking Church of Christ (The Kurdzman Church of Christ) was established in Hewlêr (Arbil) by the end of 2000 and has branches in the Silêmanî, Duhok and Kirkûk governorates. This is the first evangelical Kurdish church in Iraq [14]."

By the way, if you wonder why I care about this topic, it may be because I have some recent Lebanese ancestors (family of my great grandmother) who were some kind of local Catholics, not because I have some pro-Arab agenda, hehe.

Oh I see. Generally speaking, I have nothing against Arabs. But when they're trying to Arabize and Islamize us, that ticks me off :P Although I do think we should aim for peace since we're all Semites. — EliasAlucard (talk · contribs) 21:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, do you think Africa should be mentioned, apart from Egypt, which is already in the Middle East by most definitions? Funkynusayri (talk) 21:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, that depends, is Eritrea and Ethiopia considered part of the Middle East? According to this map it is. Also, Eritreans/Ethiopians speak a Semitic language. — EliasAlucard (talk · contribs) 21:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Hmmm, I think Eritrea and Ethiopia are only included on that map simply because Egypt and Southern Arabia wouldn't fit into the image if they weren't! Funkynusayri (talk) 21:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I think they should be included simply because of the historical importance of Christianity in Ethiopia. It's close enough to the Middle East that we can be generous about it, I think. —Angr If you've written a quality article... 21:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

yeah, at least some of them are members of the Coptic Church, so maybe they should simply be mentioned in the Coptic section, instead of a new section about Africa.

Hmm, or seems like both some Ethiopian, Syriac and Armenian churches belong to Oriental Orthodoxy. Damn, this stuff is extremely complex. At some point I think we'll have to figure out a way to categorise the churches on the list in some better way. Funkynusayri (talk) 21:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the Maltese share many genetic similarities with the Arabs and the North African Berbers. If I am not mistaken, I believe they are considered to be a semitic people, like the Arabs and the Hebrews. And until Malta was conquered by the Normans, it was politically a part of the Middle East. On the flip side, it is a very Euro-centric country today, and geographically, it is much closer to North Africa then the Middle East. So, if you are going by geography or modern politics, then the answer is 'no'. But if you are going by race, than the answer would be 'yes'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.48.19.93 (talk) 22:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Expanding the article?

Hey, does anyone think this article needs to be expanded? Because right now, it's basically a disambiguation page of Christianity in the Middle East. I think the article could benefit from some background information on each church, and church members, and other useful info. I think User:Garzo could be useful for this article. Some other Christianity expert could also spruce this article up. — EliasAlucard (HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! · contribs) 02:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I think so, but I'm certainly no expert. Funkynusayri (talk) 02:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
The article is still quite new and definitely needs polishing. User:Garzo, unfortunately, hasn't edited Wikipedia in several weeks now. I hope he's just on Christmas break and will be back soon. —Angr If you've written a quality article... 08:10, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
  • He's on it, looks very good, thanks, Garzo! Funkynusayri (talk) 18:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Syrian Orthodox Church

"Syrian Orthodox Church (also known as the Jacobite Church and sometimes Assyrian Orthodox Church)". What a bold statement. The Syrian Orthodox Church is NOT known as the Assyrian Orthodox Church. The TriZ (talk) 03:12, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

It says very clearly, sometimes. Some local Syrian Orthodox Churches use Assyrian Orthodox Church in a semi-official manner. You may have serious difficulties accepting this fact, but it's cited anyway and your opinion on the issue is irrelevant. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 08:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you blame him? He has probably never left Northern Europe in his whole life. Chaldean (talk) 15:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
And what do you know about where i have been and not? I seriously doubt that you have been to more places than i have. But that is irrelevant. But what isnt irrelevant is that the church is never refered as the Assyrian Orthodox Church. If it is, its only by assyrian fanatics like youself in a purpose to create conflicts. The TriZ (talk) 17:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
The church does not officially use the name Assyrian, unlike the Church of the East who have adopted the name. It is used by some Syriac Orthodox parishes in northern Europe on an unofficial basis. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 20:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I live in northern Europe, no one would never call the church Assyrian here except really big Assyrian fanatics, neverless, it is wrong, you know it and it gives a wrong impression by saying it sometimes being called Assyrian Orthodox Church. Btw, as you are reading Syriac in Oxford, I presume you know of Sebastian Brock? The TriZ (talk) 22:37, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
The Syriac Orthodox in Sweden are divided by 'ethnic arguments', with some preferring to be called 'Assyrian'. That's why there are two or three bishops for Sweden: one for each party. It's all rather sad and meaningless in my opinion. However, the Patriarch and the Synod maintains the name 'Syriac Orthodox' (and specifies that spelling in English). Sebastian Brock is in active retirement here. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 15:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
True, there is two bishops in Sweden. But it is wrong to say that it is "one for each party". Its mixed in the both "churches" to. The TriZ (talk) 16:41, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
TriZ, Syrian Orthodox Churches, have throughout history, sometimes, been known as Assyrian Orthodox Church. This is cited to a reliable source (Virginia Tech). You may not like this and feel like protesting against it (it's to me, quite amazing that an extra A can make self-hating Assyrians go berserk), but that is the case. I live in northern Europe too, and I know Syriac Orthodox Christians who style themselves Assyrian Orthodox when referring to their Christian heritage. Oh and by the way, please lose the "Assyrian fanatics" remark; it doesn't suit you. Don't take after me on this, I have a copyright on the term "Oromoyo fanatics" and there's a good reason as to why I've labelled you guys that, and the main reason is your entire world view revolves around the Syriac Orthodox Church and every single order said church hands out to you. If the Syrian Orthodox Church states you guys are Aramaeans, all of you will instantly and zealously believe it, unquestionably. We Assyrians may be nationalists with a religious fervour (and with good reason, considering the dire situation Assyrians in Iraq are in today), but we are certainly no religious fanatics like you guys. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 09:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Good for you! You actually know people, thats surprising. And no one in Sweden calls the church the Assyrian Orthdox church, if someone calls themself Assyrian Orthdox is because they dont want to call themselfs Syriac orthodox cause in Swedish "Syriacs" will be "Syrianer". OMG these Assyrian fanatics... The TriZ (talk) 15:32, 6 February 2008 (UTC)