Talk:Christian rock

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The critiques of Christian Rock music are understandable, but are we as Christians not allowed to have our own kind of entertainment? We watch G and PG movies such as Finding Nemo and Napolean Dynamite, which have no references to God in them. So why should our music be any different? It is our way of not conforming to the world's way. We can look into our CD collection, and enjoy the kind of music we like knowing that the messages in them will not bring us down in our faith or go against our Christian values. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.152.21.198 (talk • contribs) .

When editing on User Talk or Article Talk pages, please sign your name using four tildes ~~~~ when making your posts. I would also suggest that you consider creating an account for yourself. I hear what you are saying, but what do you suggest we should do about the article? MPS 22:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm new to this. I think the article is ok. I just get frustrated with all the Christians who say Christian rock music is not right. Like I said, it's our form of good entertainment. Yes, there are bands who say they are "Christian bands," yet there are others such as Letterkills, Project 86, Lifehouse, 12 Stones, or MXPX who don't claim to be "Christian bands", but they openly profess to be Christians themselves. Looking at these bands, their lyrics may not openly profess God or Christ, but they don't have the same type of messages portrayed through them as secular music normally does. Most of their songs are about relationships, love, or situations that we all face everyday, good or bad. Now I would rather have a punk rock song talking about love in a good moral way, such as MXPX does, than listen to a song with the type of lyrics or messages from bands such as Blink 182 or the like. Please comment. OBCyp 15:59, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I added your examples of "bands that contain Christians but are not generally considered Christian Rock" in a new section entitles Multiple Definitions of "Christian Rock" bands. Just so you know, the talk pages on Wikipedia are not for just plain talking, but are intended to help editors talk about what needs to change/improve in the article. If you think the article is AOK as it is, then there's not much reason to talk here. One thing I think defines this article is what the point of Christian Rock is. Is it for entertaining Christians? Is it for evangelism to non-Christians? Is it a form of music created by Christians just for fun with no other point? Is "Christian Rock" be something that is written so people can play it/sing it in a church setting? If you can add to the discussion of the different ways people think of Christian Rock, I think that's what needs to be added to the article. MPS 15:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] sentence removal

This sentence is currentlu being removed from the article: "Other bands merely claim to have members that are Christian"

Does this mean that bands are claiming to have Christian members, but in reality do not? Are there really Jews, Muslims or Hindus pretending to be Christian in order to be known as a "Christian Rock Band"? I would think that when band members identity as being Christians, they are most likely being honest. On a second point, I have never heard of any Christian rock band ebing identified as such merely because its members are Christian. Is ELP (Emersom Lake & Palmer) a Christian rock band because its members were Christian? Of course not. Finally, these groups do not preach a Judeo-Christian point of view. They preach a specifically Christian point of view, including the belief that Jesus is the messiah.


Can't we just say "Christian rock is like vegetarian meat" and be done with it?

[edit] Merge with Contemporary Christian music ?

Does anyone have any objection to merging this article with Contemporary Christian music? The distinction between Christian rock and CCM is fairly arbitrary, as far as I can tell, and there's no consensus as to which bands belong to which category (though I'm sure some bands would categorize themselves one way or another).

-Rholton 02:47, 2004 Mar 18 (UTC)
CCM covers only those groups within the CCM fold, maybe it is more obvious with C punk/C metal where there is less mainstream Christian appeal, but there is a distinction that should probably be maintained. Probably the article could be clearer on this. Paul foord 13:57, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose. Christian rock is distinct. CCM is primarily pop music. Christian rock is primarily rock music. While the label can be broad and you will find some bands or artists with their feet firmly planted in both camps, others would feel at home under the banner of CCM. Keep this group separate. --Walter Görlitz 18:25, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose. I was gonna write exactly what Walter said, too. CCM=pop, CR=rock and other related genres (punk, metal...). CCM is stuff that generally older Christians enjoy, while Christian Rock is generally what Christian young people listen to. They are totally different from each other. There's quite a difference between say, Amy Grant and Underoath! EdGl 21:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with EdGl. It's like saying that secular groups like: Jannet Jackson and Red Hot Chili Peppers are the same genre. Many Christain rock groups, and fans, resent the CCM lable. Saksjn 12:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)SaksjnSaksjn 12:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, Amyoath... Anyways, CCM is general contemporary music that's Christian. Rock may be contemprary, but not in the music scene. Hard to explain. Jars of Clay is CCM, but also a rock group. Think of CCM as a big group of light, easy-going, pop, soft rock, Amy Grant, Jars of Clay, 4-Him stuff. Christian Rock is more like Day of Fire, Pillar, etc. IronCrow 02:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Evanescence

I thought that Evanescence distanced itself from the "Christian music" label, or that Christians distanced it from that label... ugen64 01:30, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

They have. Although I believe that the main singer is a Christian as well as other band members, they have specifically stated that they do not want to be known by this category. Actually...check their Wikipedia entry, haha. -Dave 20:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


NO, Evanescence is Not Christain Rock Honestly, you know there not christian rock because christian rock sucks, and Evanescence is soooo awesome.

And you're soooo ridiculous for posting that. We know they aren't a Christian band, but... They have Christian members and use Christian imagry. Say that again now. IronCrow 02:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, No, Evanescence is not christian Rock Honestly, you know there not christian rock because christian rock sucks, and Evanescence is soooo awesome. TaylorLTD 17:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

They need not be Christian rock to be awesome. Christian rock may not be the best, but it is definitely not the worst. If it was, they wouldn't be selling records now, would they? Some Christian artists have sold more albums than many secular acts. :) Happy Wiki-ing, folks! aJCfreak yAk 08:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Ya, I guess I went a little overboard on this thing TaylorLTD 18:47, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

And that's an example of an excellent editor, people. Thanks, TaylorLTD. It takes a lot more than plain sense to post what you did in your response. It shows what you're made of, I guess. aJCfreak yAk 07:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Meh, apologies as well. Been busy hitting vandals with a stick recently, not fun. Good that you did admit it though... Unlike that one person on the Alesana page... IronCrow 02:43, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Creed

I think Creed falls in line with the other person's comment about Evanescence. Creed has explicitly declared that they are not a Christian band.

Creed should be removed from the list... The only person who even claims to have had a Christian background was singer Scot Stapp, whom, if you have seen the news reports about him lately, you KNOW he is not a Christian. Besides, Christian bands don't use profanity in their lyrics, while he has... - J.B. 03/22/2006

Creed and their members (one may not be, who knows?) are Christian. The band is not. Simple. IronCrow 02:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "christian band" vs. "christian rock band"

It would have been more appropriately to have an article entitled "christian band" verses "christian rock band". But with that said, it's pretty commonplace to hear people refer to "christian rock" and "christian rock bands". That given, it is fair to have an article entitled "christian rock band".

Title changed to Christian rock, to be consistent with Christian metal, Christian punk. Also turned many red links to blue. Paul foord 12:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Needs Major Edits

These pages are very messy, and some artists are not categorized correctly (to those who actually listen to the music). I've done a little cleaning up of the layout of the pages, but much more needs doing. I may try cleaning up various other pages (CM Rock artists, for instance, need cleaning up). There should be a CCM Pop (CCM stands for Contemporary Christian Music, and I feel does NOT stand for Rock, as many people do not concider rock a part of CCM, but rather Christian Music in general) page for artists that are explicitly Pop/Contemporary. There should also be some expansions into Christian Hard Rock, Hip-hop/rap.

I think that the entire list needs to be relocated to a List of Contemporary Christian Musicians or something. Lists of this magnitude are not supposed to be in articles on genres. A few examples may be appropriate, but by no means a long list. -Dave 20:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peter Garrett

I looked a little, but couldn't find where he was accepted as a part of a "Christian rock" band/group.

This article is not about CCM, he is a Christian whose music was informed by his faith. Therefore OK here esp when Midnight Oil appear on the list of CCM rock musicians (probably incorrectly). Paul foord 12:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Christian "Rock" a Genre?

Rock music is that guitar/drum, etc. driven music that developed out of Gospel and Blues. Metal, punk, alternative, and so forth are sub-genres of rock. "Christian" rock is rock music which is considered by a significant number of its listeners to be Christian. The lines are really way too blurred to categorize. A Christian artist might be considered by some of his or her listeners to sing Christian music, or the Christian message might not be heard by others. A question to consider: Are "After Forever," "Children of the Grave" and "Lord of this World" on Black Sabbath's 1971 album, Master of Reality, Christian? Read the lyrics before you decide. I say Black Sabbath is definitely not a Christian band, but these songs pack quite a Christian wollop!

And don't confuse CCM between the abbreviation for 'contemporary Christian music" and the trademarked CCM of CCM Magazine. A magazine can't dictate what is or is not Christian music. I think I'm going to enjoy writing here. Ognyen 03:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Well 150.199.109.61, I suggest that you get an account, since they're free, and that you sign your posts to the talk section.
To directly answer your question, I don't think Christian Rock is a genre either and no one can tell me what I should think Christian Rock music is. My definition for Christian Music would be if the content is written by someone who is a professing Christian. Whether they market their music through labels that consider themselves "Christian", mainstream (the term secular is not commonly used any longer), or independently, has no bearing on whether they should be considered a Christian band or not. Also since lyrics play an important part in conveying the message, I would say that any band whose lyrical content does not glorify God would not be considered a Christian band. This doesn't mean that they have to focus only on "Christian" themes, but I would say that if they focus on glorifying values that are not supported by Christian scripture or any Christian doctrines then they are likely not a Christian band. --Walter Görlitz 18:23, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

If Christian rock is not a genre, and if the musicians involved fail to pass some test of orthodoxy there is a thing popularly understood as Christian rock. The article is an attempt to explain what it is, you are welcome to expand/edit the article and will find others may respond with various degrees of vigor to those edits. In answer to the question 'What is Christian rock?', I think it is rock music inspired by the music and the Christian faith of the writer/performer. Maybe Christian rock is not capable of a tight unambiguous definition, it certaily will not necessarily have an evangelical theological stance. Paul foord 19:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Hopefully, this will work. I'm quite new to Wikipedia, and didn't know how to add a signature. I'll give this a try: Ognyen 03:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Avoiding the Christian Label

Evanescence has, in my opinion, distanced themselves from the Christian label by their behavior -in both dress and language. Creed's lead singer (Scott Stapp?) has come out and stated his blatant Christianity ( http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/2004/scottstapp-0804.html ), but not necessarily Christianity for the band. Alice Cooper came out and said he'd embraced Christianity, and it shows in his lyrics, but not necessarily in his stage presence (google search for "alice+cooper+christianity"). U-2's Bono is flaunted by many as a great Christian singer who's accepted in the mainstream, but I have doubts. His language can be quite as "flowery" as Ozzy Osbourne's. Ognyen 03:18, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

What are the criteria for labeling groups "Christian music"? Some groups which seem to profess Christian themes and attitudes distance themselves from the Christian music image (I think Switchfoot seems to do this from the interviews I've heard). Madnova777 04:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 12 Stones

12 Stones also expressed that they are not a "Christian Band", but Christians in a band. I am removing them from the list.

  • Ummm... a lot of bands on that list don't call themselves a "Christian Band". However, their lyrics come out with Christian themes, therefore they stay on this list. EdGl 21:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bands?

Should we really list all the bands on this page, or perhaps a "list of Christian rock bands" page?

[edit] The Murr Album?

Is the eqiv. of the Plat record a murr album in christion rock?

Never heard of it, besides, band such as switchfoot and Reliant K have produced platinum albums. Saksjn (talk) 13:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hope you don't mind...

I alphabetized the bands to the best of my ability so it's a little easier to browse. Today, I also went through all the bands and singers in that section and linked them to their wikipages.--MaskedScissorDoll 13:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Partial Merge with Contemporary Christian music

I see earlier that some people opposed combining this page with CCM, but there are still some redundant sections. It seems to me that Christian Rock is just a genre of Contemporary Christian Music, and that redundant parts should be left to CCM (e.g., criticisms). Anything that's in Christian Rock and isn't in CCM should be moved there. (e.g., evangelistic goals). Meanwhile, we could have a section header that says "criticisms", but links to criticisms under CCM (I'm open to other suggestions too). This is a problem with some other Christian music categories too (e.g., Christian rap). -Patstuart 00:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

COME ON MAN! don't you get the point! These bands, and their fans, don't want them labled as CCM. Saksjn 12:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)SaksjnSaksjn 12:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Christians" in a Non-Christian Band

Is there any verification whatsoever concerning the Non-Christian bands mentioned in the article? You know, the ones which "do not claim to be 'Christian Bands', but include members who openly profess to be Christians" ??? I think the claim that members of The White Stripes are openly Christian is bogus and/or totally unverifiable. I'm changing this:

"include members who openly profess to be Christians and at times may feature Christian thought, imagery, scripture or other influences in their music."

to this:

"include members who openly profess to be Christians or at times may feature Christian thought, imagery, scripture or other influences in their music."

[edit] globalize, npov templates

There's no discussion on the talk page about why these templates are present, and the article seems fine to me. The "globalize" template is unnecessary, but Christian rock is a phenomenon primarily centered in the United States and, to some extent, British colonies. The NPOV template seems unnecessary because the article is section is already painfully sanitized "some critics..., some critics...". So I'm removing them. 64.178.96.168 19:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lennon comment

I'm sure it reads better to the religious people to claim Lennon just said The Beatles "were bigger than Jesus" but if you even look at the Beatle wiki page you will see the full comment, with the "more popular than Jesus" taken out of context.204.73.103.253 05:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

What does that have to do with the quote used? Christians at the time were very upset that he said that, regardless. IronCrow 02:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] an appeal for proper genre classification on album articles

I see far too many articles whose infobox says simply christian rock for the genre. C'mon! "Christian" may identify the lyrical content, but "rock" is far too broad to describe the musical content. Similarly with categories—Category:Christian rock albums is not good enough. Please, let's try to do better! ⇔ ChristTrekker 19:54, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Think of "Christian rock" as an umbrella term or universal term. Yes, there may be "Christian Pop Rock" or "Christian Hard Rock" band or whatnot, but they are still Christian and Rock nonetheless. Though I do agree with you on that it is used without referencing the subgenre. IronCrow (talk) 02:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Christian Rock is a culture, not a musical style. Use it only to describe a bands status in the Christian Rock community. Then, list the genres they play. Personally, articles such as Christian Punk, and Christian Metal shouldn't exist, since they fall into the Christian Rock culture. Saksjn (talk) 13:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
You are mistaken. I doubt anyone dresses "Christian rock" or is a "Christian rocker." There's Punks, Rockers, metalheads, etc. Christian metal is very much different than mainstream Christian music when discussing genre primarily because it is a seperate movement, much like the Christian Punk of Straight Edge movement. See the Christian metal page.¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 04:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Rock WikiProject

Isn't it about time we started our own wikiproject so we can improve the articles? Some of our articles are pretty bad. Saksjn (talk) 16:52, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Anybody there? Saksjn (talk) 13:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm split on that. While Christian metal and Christian Punk are movements as well, Christian Music wikiproject has the Christian Rock thing covered. ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 04:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Currently, the Christian music WP seems good enough. aJCfreak yAk 05:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] major rewrite

Would anyone have a problem with me doing a very major re-write in the near future? Saksjn (talk) 12:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)