Talk:Christian opposition to antisemitism

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Votes for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on April 8, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep, no consensus. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

I moved this page to correct the capitalization in naming. I'm going to change some of linking pages now to avoid redirects. gren 15:59, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Also, I think this page needs to fit in better with Christianity and anti-Semitism and other such pages to avoid massive redundancy. gren 16:04, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Neutrality of Scholars Defending Pius XII

The heading of this whole entry in Wikipedia is "Christian Opposition to anti-Semitism." It is certainly within the scope of this article to discuss scholars who have defended Pius XII against charges of anti-Semitism. This section will include books that criticize Pius XII as well as responses that are made to them by many scholars. However, I am open to only limiting this part of the article so that it only mentions books that critique him (without going into detail about the critiques) as well as mentioning other books that have offered rebuttals against the critics. So instead of mentioning these here, we can link to other articles that specifically discuss the books. Newcrusade 21:58, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Goodoldpolonius, moving the POV again

I understand your concern regarding the article of Pius XII. I can see how that the section about scholars defending Pius XII may be disputed, but there is nothing that I see that can be disputed in the rest of the article. The point of the article is "Christian Opposition to Anti-Semitism," thus listing actions taken by the Church under Pius' and actions taken by Pius himself to curb anti-Semitism are within the scope of this article. There is simply no POV about it. The actions taken by Pius to curb anti-Semitism are fact. Thanks for your input, Newcrusade 22:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Effk's editing under Pius XII

While I appreciate any additions that can be made to improve this article, I don't think that your contributions to othe article on Pius xii are helpful, Effk. The are not only far beyond the scope of this article and contraditory to it, but they are also definitely POV. The point of this article is about Christian opposition to anti-Semitism, it is not about a supposed conspiracy of Pius XII with Hitler. Also, I think Strykker(? don't remember how to spell it) would agree that your comments are POV, it is obivous your intent is to accuse Pius XII of anti-Semitism. Did you read any of the rest of the article? Also, while I want to understand what your additions were in the article, honestly they didn't make any sense. It appears incoherent. Thanks for your effort in trying to improve the article, but I don't think your comments were appropriate, and that is why I agree they should be deleted from the section under Pius XII. Thanks, Newcrusade 19:14, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I tagged with POV. Please see the ongoing dispute at that article (although it is improving). These sections are ridiculous. savidan(talk) (e@) 08:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Einstein's Quote

Albert Einstein also praised the efforts of Pius XII and the Catholic Church: "Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty."


"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."


When you look it up in the TIME magazine you'll find this quote:

„Being a lover of freedom, when the [Nazi] revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks.... Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly. "

December 1940

Perhaps Einstein's quote was translated twice. This explains the difference between the two quotes. In the orignal version Einstein does not specify whether he meant the catholic ot the protestant church(in fact he mentions both churches in the other parts of the TIME magazine article). But in non of these two versions the Pope is mentioned. And becaust Einstein said this in 1940 it has nothing to do with the Holocaust which started about one year later.

[edit] Merge

For the sake of keeping all the merge discussion together, please discuss the proposed merge on Talk: Christianity and anti-Semitism. savidan(talk) (e@) 19:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

The article is already 51k long, how could a merge into an even broader topic yield anything but a gargantuan mess or the removal of crucial detail? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TMLutas (talk • contribs) 21:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC).
I am in favor of the merge. I don't think it would be that bad, provided the merge is done "well". Hopefully at least some things would be added as additions to pre-existing things. The merge would also potentially remove the accusations of POV in the title of the article. Plus it could be summarized in its own section of the article, where care would be taken to include crucial detail. OneGyT/T|C 22:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)