Talk:Christian II of Denmark

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This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

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Original text from 1911 EB - please update

I broke this up into paragraphs and made some links to various European royalty, etc, but someone should check. Article could use some further organization, probably someone who knows more could update it from the 1911 version. Ortolan88

Contents 1 C. the Good 2 Children? 3 Not verified tag (Renata of Lorraine) 4 Verified! 5 POV 6 Title in infobox 7 NPOV

[edit] C. the Good

There is a rumour in Sweden that he was in Denmark known as Christian the Good. The rumour is not true. I have reverted the insertion of it once, and it is the only reason I have to have the page on my watchlist. For an explaination of the rumour look at the page on swedish wikipedia sv:Kristian II#Myten om Kristian den gode or sepearate article sv:Kristian den gode. If anyone can find a place to add this piece of info to this article, please do so; I don't know where it would fit, as a Swedish rumour is not so intresting on English wikipedia. --Fred-Chess July 1, 2005 06:22 (UTC)

Right. That's a rather common myth in Sweden. Although it's kind of hard to see how anyone knowing something of Christian could believe it; He was after all dethroned and imprisoned. Hardly a common fate for a 'good' king. Swedish historian Alf Henrikson pointed out another thing which is perhaps noteworthy in this context: Christian himself probably wouldn't have minded being called a 'tyrant' at all, since that word had quite different connotations to an early 16th century ruler. It's known that he had read Machiavelli's The Prince and wanted it translated. (Henrikson doesn't say if that wish was carried out though). --BluePlatypus 16:16, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

The article on The Prince states that the work wasn't publicised before 1532. Since Christian was deposed already in 1523 and imprisoned in 1532, he wouldn't have been able to order anybody to do anything at all, unless somebody had been so kind to provide him with an advance copy between 1513 and 1532. :) Valentinian ^{T / C} 10:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Fra da:wiki: I skånsk-dansk historie omtaltes han med tilnavnet den Gode eller Bondekjær, al den stund han holdt med "småkårsfolkene" mod den mægtige adel og rigsrådet. --Comanche cph 20:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you have any aspirations in contributing encyclopedic and accurate contents? The Danish article says Det er dog en myte, at han i skånsk/dansk historie omtales med tilnavnet den Gode eller Bondekjær, fordi han holdt med "småkårsfolkene" mod den mægtige adel og rigsrådet. I landflygtigheden beskrev kongen sig selv som Christian den Gode i et forsøg på at vinde tilhængere, og det har forledt nogen til at tro, at det også var et reelt anvendt tilnavn.

Fred-Chess 20:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Just for the record; neither Store Danske Encyklopædi or Salmonsens Konversationsleksikon [1] even mentions this alleged byname. Valentinian ^{T / C} 09:32, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Children?

Why not mention his children and link to them? They are present in en.wikipedia! //Astor Piazzolla 09:39, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not verified tag (Renata of Lorraine)

I've raised the not verified tag as there is a need to clarify the relation between Renata of Lorraine and Charles XV of Sweden. In the article on the mother of the latter, Josephine of Leuchtenberg, it is claimed that she is an ancestor of Renata of Lorraine, and thereby of her great-grandfather Christian II of Denmark. See also my comment on Talk:Josephine of Leuchtenberg. I have not seen this information in any other place than these two articles and I would like this information to be verified by some external source. --Astor Piazzolla 21:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verified!

I have removed the non-verified tag. I mixed to Renatas of Lorraine. My mistake! --Astor Piazzolla 10:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC) (For some reason, this post was deleted, I've put it back.) --Astor Piazzolla 12:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

As viceroy of Norway (1506 – 1512) he had already displayed a singular capacity for ruling under exceptionally difficult circumstances. Patriotism, insight, courage, statesmanship, energy -- these great qualities were indisputably his; but unfortunately they were vitiated by obstinacy, suspicion and a sulky craftiness, beneath which simmered a very volcano of vengeful cruelty.

very culcano of cruelty is hardly NPOV. Could you please provide sources to verify this claim or is this simply another example of original research by Swedish nationalists who think Wikipedia is a propaganda tool in a 500 year old dispute. It's 500 years ago people! Let's get over it! MartinDK 10:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't see how that paragraph could end up both sourced and NPOV, so I've removed it and toned down the sentence about his administration in Norway. (What are the sources that his administration in Norway was any brilliant?) It is bad historical practice to attempt a psychological analysis on dead persons unless the sources surviving are absolutely excellent. I haven't heard this to be the case with Christian II. I'd also like to see well-sourced references that Christian's rule was exceptional in a European context. Killing off 80 people you don't trust is drastic, yes, but application of massive force is not unique in European history. E.g., Italian history contains pretty brutal episodes. I also noted the discrepancy between this paragraph and the articles about certain Swedish kings that treated Scania very harshly. Let's stick to well-sourced and NPOV material and apply the same standard for both Danes and Swedes. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 11:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I have added an attempt at a more neutral introduction. It is mostly based on the Great Danish Encyclopedia. The Norwegian Wikipedia article also looks pretty interesting. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 12:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

In this context, I tried to write an article on Christians admiral de:Søren Norby in the German Wikipedia, and found that both, the Danish as well as the Swedish article - unsourced - as they are, were not of great help. I didn't find really good English or German sources on the topic.--Kresspahl 15:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title in infobox

Shouldn't his whole title be included in the infobox? I mean the title used in official documents: "Christiern med Gudz Naade, Danmarckis, Suerrigis, Norrigis, Vendis, och Gottis Koninng, Hertug i Slesuig, Holsten, Staarmaaren, och Dyttmersken, Greffue vdj Oldenborg, och Delmenhorst"[2] (Christian by the grace of God, king of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the Vends and the Goths, Duke of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn and Dithmarschen, Count of Oldenburg and Delmenhorst). The question also applies for all the other monarchs as well of course: Is the intention of the "title" in the infobox to give the full formal title they used, or just a bland listing of the realms they were monarch of? I would prefer the former.--Barend 16:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I have removed the worst Dane bashing from the article but it still needs sources and substantial rewriting before it represents a decent article. Large parts of the article is written as if it was copied from a narrative history book and has no sources despite making some pretty substantial claims. It's been 500 years... isn't it time to bury the hatchet and work together? EconomicsGuy (talk) 08:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)