Talk:Christ the Lord Is Risen Today

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[edit] Jesus Christ is risen today

"Jesus Christ is risen today" is a different hymn. This article is about "Christ the Lord is risen today, Alleluia! Sons of men and angels say. Alleluia! Raise your joys and triumphs high, Alleluia! Sing, ye heavens, and earth reply, Allelulia!" The other hymn (which I at least know much better) is an anonymous translation of an anonymous Latin hymn, and it goes "Jesus Christ is risen today, Alleluia! Our triumphant holy day, Alleluia! Who did once upon the cross, Alleluia! Suffer to redeem our loss!" --Angr/tɔk tə mi 07:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Angr is right; they are two different hymns. They sound somewhat similar, particularly because each phrase ends with Alleluia, but are definately two different hymns. -- Essjay · Talk 09:07, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
    • They don't just sound similar. They have the same words. Note that the final and antepenultimate verses of the this hymn are in fact the first and second verses of the other one. Uncle G 10:37, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • According to my hymnals, there is some confusion. I checked the Gather hymnal (Catholic) from GIA Publications (1994) and the Chalice Hymnal (DOC) from Chalice Press (1995). Gather lists "Christ the Lord" written by Wesley and set to the tune LLANFAIR, 77 77 with alleluias by Robert Williams. Chalice Hymnal lists it written by Wesley, but set to Lyra Davidica, (EASTER HYMN) 77.77 w. alleluias by Charles H. Webb. (And I checked, the music is different, not just differnet names for the same piece.) Chalice doesn't list "Jesus Christ" but Gather does, and it has it set to Lyra Davidica, (EASTER HYMN) 77.77 w. alleluias. Seems to me that different arrangers have arranged the text over different music, thus causing the confusion. However, the two hymns do have different texts; "Christ the Lord" has the same text in both hymnals, and "Jesus Christ" has a completely different text. -- Essjay · Talk 11:08, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

The text in my hymnal reads:

Christ the Lord is ris'n today, Alleluia.
All on earth with angels say, Alleluia.
Raise you joys and triumphs high, Alleluia.
Sing, O heav'ns and earth reply, Alleluia.
Lives again our glorious King, Alleluia.
Where, O death, is now your sting? Alleluia.
Once he died our souls to save, Alleluia.
Where your victory, O grave? Alleluia.
Love's redeeming work is done, Alleluia.
Fought the fight the battle won. Alleluia.
Death in vain forbids him rise; Alleluia.
Christ has openend paradise. Alleluia.
Soar we now where Christ has led, Alleluia.
Foll'wing our exalted head; Alleluia.
Made like him, like him we rise, Alleluia.
Our the cross, the grave, the skies, Alleluia.

and

Jesus Christ is ris'n today, Alleluia.
Our triumphant holy day, Alleluia.
Who did once upon the cross, Alleluia.
Suffer to redeem our loss, Alleluia.
Hymns of praise then let us sing, Alleluia.
Unto Christ our heav'nly King, Alleluia.
Who endured the cross and grave, Alleluia.
Sinners to redeem and save, Alleluia.
But the pains which he endured, Alleluia.
Our salvation have procured, Alleluia.
Now above the sky he's King, Alleluia.
Where the angels ever sing. Alleluia.
Sing we to our God above, Alleluia.
Praise eternal as his love, Alleluia.
Praise him now his might confess, Alleluia.
Father, Son, and Sprirt blest, Alleluia.

Is it different in yours? -- Essjay · Talk 12:28, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • Your hymnal, like the original version of this article, is completely missing 6 of the stanzas from the former hymn, including the stanzas taken from the latter, so it is no wonder that you don't see them to be the same. Read the text on Wikisource for all ten stanzas. Your hymnal has also, ironically, added a 4th stanza to the latter hymn. The irony, given the claim that these two are wholly different hymns, is the author of that stanza, and the fact that your hymnal's "Jesus Christ is risen today" is just as much a derivative of the original as "Christ the Lord Is Risen Today" is. Several of the hymnals that add a 4th stanza, such as this one, credit that 4th stanza to Wesley, whilst crediting the first 3 to Lyra Davidica (via The Compleat Psalmodist). Does yours? Uncle G 13:01, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • The "chief text" for this page is Wesley's hymn. I have noticed that in some modern "inclusive language" hymnals (notably the latest from the PCUSA), the hymn is retitled "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today"...presumably because there was some apprehension about the word "Lord" (as well there should be...but not by Christians...but I digress). Other than the title change & first line change, the text remains Wesley's.

    There may well be another hymn entitled "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today", but I think that this page centers on Wesley's majestic text, and not the more obscure text. KHM03 12:57, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

    • There is no "chief text for this page"; "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today" is the title from 1749, not a modern re-titling; the original Latin was "Surrexit Christus hodie", with no mention of "Jesus" or "Lord"; and "Wesley's majestic text" is in fact some additional verses for a hymn whose evolution can be traced back as far as the 14th century, and which appears to have split in twain in the 18th. Uncle G 13:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Holy Christ. I'm wading out of this one; the article has changed significantly from the way it was when I nominated it for deletion, and I've changed my vote to keep in light of that. I don't know what the heck the hymnal writers are doing, but they've managed to confuse the hell out of me. I'm going back to singing them, and I'll leave the music scholarship to the music scholars. -- Essjay · Talk 13:10, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

The second line of the first verse of "Christ the Lord" above also seems to be gender-neutral language: my 1940 Episcopal hymnal has "Sons of men and angels say" rather than "All on earth with angels say". It also has a slightly different ending for the last verse of "Jesus Christ": "Praise him, all ye heav'nly host, Alleluia! / Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Alleluia!", which is hardly original enough for Wesley to really claim credit for it, though the hymnal does credit Wesley as the author of the fourth verse. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 13:27, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I have added the original Latin text and the older Lyra Davidica translation to Wikisource:Jesus Christ Is Risen Today. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 13:44, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vote for Deletion

This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 21:05, 23 July 2005 (UTC)