Talk:Chris Langham

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A user added

Langham gave his name to the Langham, the stalk on top of Berets.

This will require detailed substantiation. --Phil | Talk 15:25, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Ken Campbell (actor) told this story of Chris, which happened during the long production of Illuminatus, IIRC. The context was that Chris commented one day that a person simply has to find something that doesn't have a name and then give his name to it. He said that one day he would find something without a name and give his name to it. Some time later he announced that he had found just such an item, being the stalk on the beret, which was henceforth known as a 'Langham'. I always refer to it as such, but how many people need to use this word in this way for it to be considered substantiated? I would have thought one was sufficient.David Farmbrough 09:00 (GMT) 15 Jun 2005
This is what should be in the article. The point is that that's what he calls them. I have put some of it into the article. A source would be nice too. Tim Ivorson 15:25, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
To follow this up, is it significant that his first wife was responsible for the popularisation of the slang expression the 'Judith' named after her appearance naked in the film Monty Python’s Life of Brian? DavidFarmbrough 14:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Someone else can decide where this fits in, but Dirk Maggs writes in the second volume Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy radio scripts that Chris (who appeared in the 6th episode of the 2004 Tertiary Phase) also played Arthur Dent in the May 1979 stage version of Hitchhiker's, directed by Ken Campbell - the famous version where all 80 members of the audience sat and rode around in an air car levitated ever so slightly above the surface. --JohnDBuell | Talk 00:28, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! I've added it after merging the two mentions of Not the Nine O'Clock News, since it all happened around the same time. I think it all flows a bit better now, but there's still room for improvement. -- Guybrush 03:26, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Good thought too, to put his stage appearance back in the H2G2 article! I went back and added the bit about his appearance in the last episode of the third series. --JohnDBuell | Talk 03:41, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] The news coverage is strange...

... it referred to 'internet-related crime' first of all, but now it's changed to child porn. This doesn't sound like Chris Langham to me - perhaps it's all some ghastly mistake. The only source I have seen is the BBC news one which quoted the police as referring to 'internet-related crime'. I hope they haven't jumped to conclusions. DavidFarmbrough 12:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh come on...he's been using child porn, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's not like it really matters, anyway; it's not like he's a child murderer, as the media would probably have you believe.--CaptainSurrey talk
We can't say that for sure (innocent until proven guilty still applies), but even so it still doesn't sound like him - and yes they do give him the same treatment as a convicted child molester. cf Pete Townshend and Gary Glitter. DavidFarmbrough 12:30, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I haven't heard enough about this case to be able to comment on it specifically, but the first thing that came to mind was the case of Massive Attack's Robert_Del_Naja, who was arrested on charges of downloading child pornography in 2003.
Now, you can decide for yourself if his (very public) criticism of the war in Iraq had anything to do with it, or if the fact that the investigation was later terminated with no charges being brought seems suspicious.... but you can probably guess what I think was behind this.
That's funny, I thought Massive Attack had decided to change their name just to Massive as they didn't want to be associated with the war in Iraq (the earlier one). Have they gone back on their principles? DavidFarmbrough 17:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
IIRC (and I may be wrong on this), this was more to do with the BBC's paranoia at the time (e.g. they didn't want to play Lulu's "Boom Bang a Bang"). Queen's "Innuendo" video didn't get played as much as it might have because it came out at around the same time, and featured war footage. Fourohfour 17:56, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Until sufficient genuine information in this case has become public, speculation is worse than meaningless. Fourohfour 16:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 15 Counts of Making Indecent Images of Children

What exactly does "making indecent images" mean? Is that a legal term for downloading?Or is it actually taking photos and storing them on a PC? 172.139.59.169 15:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It's a deliberately open term, usually applied to downloading, to make prosecution easier. Technically, downloading is creating another image file; thus "making indecent images". We could get into a Foucauldian discussion here about discourse and power... The JPS talk to me 15:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
The problem is, the charge of 'making indecent images of children' suggests that he had lured them to his house with sweets, undressed and photographed them. I think that this ought to be explained in the article. It's mysterious how this co-incided with his BAFTA award. Are the police just cherry-picking high profile people? DavidFarmbrough 12:16, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I agree that the term is problematic and provokes dangerous misinterpreation. As far as I understand, though, "making indecent images" is the official charge -- which is what we are accurately reporting. We don't know any further details. Is there an article we could link to that discusses the complexities of the charge? The JPS talk to me 12:23, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I heard that, if convicted, he could serve 13 years upwards in jail. Nowadays that seems more than some people get for killing. Whatever anyone's views on the controversial subject of pedophilia, I find it mind-boggling that he could serve so long for merely LOOKING AT A PICTURE. This signifies the kind of out-of-proportion moral panic ridiculed by Chris Morris in Brass Eye, around the whole subject of pedophilia. Merely BEING a pedophile has become the crime, rather than any form of child-molestation. Even if you view pedophilia as an illness (dubious scientifically), this is like making schizophrenia illegal. Even when Oscar Wilde went to jail, it was for the ACT of gay sex rather than BEING homosexual or looking at pictures of naked men. 13 years for looking at a JPEG... am I the only one who finds that a bit absurd?-Neural 22:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The argument is based on the presumption that end consumers of commercial child pornography create a demand for material which results in the abuse of children. DavidFarmbrough 11:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, that's the official line. It probably has more to do with people like Chris Langham being an easier target than child pornographers themselves, who almost never find themselves before a court. As for the rationale... have these extreme sentences reduced the amount of child porn floating around? By all accounts, both supply and demand are growing rapidly. Even teenagers are being arrested for sending sexual images to each other on mobile phones. I read about one 13 year old girl in America who posted naked/sexual pictures of herself on the internet - bizarrely enough, she was arrested on a charge of "making indecent images of children" and "sexually abusing herself"! Society is in a bit of a muddled panic, I do believe. I realize this is no place for my subjective observations, however, so I'll leave my comments there. Sorry everyone. -Neural 19:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
No need to apologize! You have displayed brilliant idealism and very cultured thought. Two things that seem to be lacking in this environment. --CaptainSurrey 21:31, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

There is a comment in The Times (28th July or 4th August) that you can look up the compensation paid to victims of crime. So famous people run the risk of someone maliciously accusing them of, e.g. sexual assault by some chancer, and low risk to the said chancer. Further that the police link the two charges - sexual assault and child pornography - as, even if cleared of the former, the details of the suspect's sex life may be more likely to convince the jury that he's a pervert. matthewdjb 15:00, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Having organised video files of children being raped and tortured were plenty evidence to the jury that he was a pervert... --Fredrick day 13:08, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
"Pervert" is a very downmarket, rather immature term. Please appreciate the sensitivity of this issue and approach it with slightly more professionalism. The JPStalk to me 13:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
what a strange statement - Pervert is a perfectly sensible and mature term to use. Unless someone wants to argue that wanting to watch children being raped is a normal behaviour. Just because downmarket papers use it in a rather loose manner does not mean it's not still a perfectly fit descriptive term. --Fredrick day 13:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Although this is a talk page, you are making publishing lots of unsourced statements on the internet. I disagree with the status of 'pervert'. It is an inherently subjective term too: although, of course, share your subjectivities. The JPStalk to me 13:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

If it makes people happier - I suggest we stick to "Sex Offender" - he is on the UK Sex offenders register, so he is de facto (from a legal POV) a sex offender. --Fredrick day 13:54, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

As an objective legal term, that is preferable. The JPStalk to me 14:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


Maybe we should all just be shot for downloading anything!....oh sorry, wrong meeting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.104.31 (talk) 12:05, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "having a langham"

Subsequently, having a langham became accepted as a term for a culpable glitter, or perve, on the internet

Assuming this is not a spoof, I think we could do with so e kind of reference here. Flapdragon 16:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This is unsourced. Minglex 16:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Court case

Have removed "Langham did not attend this hearing.", which followed "The case was then adjourned again till 26 July 2006.", seeing as it's only the 21st of July now, making it somewhat impossible to have missed the hearing. Alexrushfear 22:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not clear to me if he was charged with POSESSING or CREATING these images . 90.11.230.159 13:10, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Read a section above. The JPStalk to me 15:17, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does anybody know what happened?

What has happened? The last I heard was that the case had been adjourned to the 30th August 2006. That date has come and gone with no news coverage whatsoever. Does anybody know whether it was re-adjourned, or whether the case is now being heard, or what? 06 September 2006.

That we haven't heard anything suggests, I think, that the proceedings are now underway. --81.103.216.19 22:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious reference

I also think Retuers is encyclopaedic, but I'm unconvinced about this rather informal souce. The JPStalk to me 07:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed - I've replaced it with a link to a news story in The Daily Mirror --J2thawiki 08:43, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Law lesson

Anyone else thing the "Arrest" section is overlong? There's very little we know of, we don't really need a blow-by-blow account of each hearing: the dates of when he was arrested, charged, and will be tried, and on what charges, would suffice. Further, I am unsure the value of several long paragraphs describing the law exactly. Morwen - Talk 14:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and had just come here to make the same two points. -- Beardo 06:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
what?, you think that that is too much information. I think that it is good to have a source of information for what is going on for Langham.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.200.186 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 15 February 2007 UTC
I've shortened it a bit by removing some of the court appearences where he was just rebailed. I also removed the "law lesson"; although it was well written and referenced it belongs on pages for the offences rather than here.--J2thawiki 17:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the term 'Buggery' is either a legal term or a particularly pleasant one, regardless as to whether it is properly referenced. Any suggestions as to an alternative?

"Buggery" is a legal term in the UK, as you will see if you follow the wikilink. Lou.weird 08:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps that is true, but actually, if you follow the wikilink, things become very unclear, to say the least. The article on buggery cites only two laws in which the term "buggery" was used, the Buggery Act and the Offences Against the Person Act. Following the wikilink to the Buggery Act, we discovered that "the United Kingdom repealed its buggery laws". Following the link to the OAPA, we discover that sections 61 and 62 dealt with buggery, but that they have been "repealed" too. We further discover that almost all sexual offences are now contained in the Sexual Offences Act, but the article about it doesn't mention the term "buggery". -86.142.109.209 21:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I have rfemoved it for WP:BLP concerns, if he were to be convicted it would be different, SqueakBox 21:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Why exactly did you remove it? It is what he's been charged with - you left in the other charges, and now the article is incomplete. 82.35.59.204 15:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Writing Credits

Langham appeared in and wrote for Spike Milligan's Q series, yet there's not a mention of it...

[edit] Reorganisation of arrest and trial

Now that the verdicts are out, I thought it appropriate to merge and reorganise the arrest and trial sections. I have heavily cut the description of the charges for which he was acquitted. --Peter cohen 17:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

HE was made to sign the sex offenders register by the judge before he left court tonight. The artuicle should make reference to the fact that he is a registered sex offender.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.35.133.150 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 3 August 2007.

[edit] "Convicted paedophile"

Many people have strong feelings about Langham but this does not mean that we should expose Wikipedia to a possible libel action. Langham, through his lawyer, made a statement stating he was not a paedophile but trying to purge his own demons. Neither the professional assessors who saw him pre-sentence nor the judge who sentenced him expressed the opinion that he was a paedophile. He was convicted of downloading child pornography: this is an offence, whatever the reason behind it (clinical research, curiousity, prurience etc). It is not necessary to speculate about his motives: people will form (and have formed) their own judgement. --ROGER DAVIES TALK 18:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

leaving aside the fact that he'd never attempt such a lawsuit or indeed win such a lawsuit I'd broadly agree - he was never convicted of being a paedophile as such an offense does not exist, he was convicted on the basis of downloading child pornography - this is covered in the second lead paragraph and has it's own headlined section - it's covered, it's in there - we have the fact, we are reporting the facts, what more need to be said. --Fredrick day 18:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
We've got no idea what he might do or what, with the benefit of psychiatrists' reports, a libel judge might decide. Langham has no savings, no pension and his career's ruined so he might try it to "clear his name". The nationals were exceedingly circumspect in their reporting (the closest they got was references to "paedophile pornography"). But, yes, Wikipedia's role is to report the facts, not to attach sensational labels. --ROGER DAVIES TALK 19:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Wikipedia's role is to present a factual article. Putting sensational labels on him is both unfair and not in the spirit of Wikipedia. As far as litigation is concerned, he may not have the money, but others may help him to find it. Wallie 10:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a newspaper, so wouldn't it be best to leave the reporting until the facts have been clearly defined? --andreasegde 13:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I thought they had been clearly defined. Wallie 16:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Langham is a convicted paedophile

Although paedophilia is not a criminal offence in itself, it it used to describe people who download child pornography among other things. Quote "The term pedophile is also used colloquially to denote an adult who is sexually attracted to adolescents or youths below the local age of consent,[2] as well as those accused or convicted of child sexual abuse or child pornography related offences". Therefore Chris Langham is a convicted paedophile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.139.84 (talk) 09:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The colloquial use is imprecise. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and, as such, aims to use words precisely and clearly. A paedophile is someone whose primary sexual orientation is towards children, although the definition of what a child is, or at least the age of consent, varies from country to country. Langham may or may not be a paedophile, but he is not a convicted one. He is a convicted downloader of paedophilic pornography. Many people convicted of such offences are paedophiles, but not all are. Not all child sex abusers are paedophiles. And conversely there are people who are paedophiles who are horrifed and ashamed of their sexual urges and suppress them. So, child sex offenders and paedophiles are two overlapping groups neither of which is a subset of the other. --Peter cohen 10:22, 30 September 2007

(UTC)

If Langham does not have a sexual interest in children then why did he have those pictures ? The jury did not believe his story about research because if they did then he would be found not guilty. There are lawful reasons to have photographs of naked children but the jury decided he was not acting lawful. Now if he was not acting lawful and his reasons were rejected, what are we left with? He said he was looking at the images for two reasons, for research and to understand better what had happened to him !! This situation calls for a balance of probabilities. Who would have thought looking at the most serious grade of explicit pictures would help you understand anything ? Also it was not he who was playing the part he was researching, it was Paul Whitehouse playing the "pedro" part. I hope you do not sit on a jury.

It's WP:OR and novel synthesis - we do not do either of those at wikipedia - that's the start, middle and end of it. --Fredrick day 11:00, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
"The jury did not believe his story about research because if they did then he would be found not guilty." This is not the case. Possession of indecent images of children is a 'strict liability offence'. That means that there is never ANY excuse for having such material. So you could legitimately view child porn for 'research purposes', looking after it for a friend, etc., and still be committing an offence. DavidFarmbrough 11:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
You'll be glad to hear that I've got a jury summons for the week after next. Now please stop making comments that impugn my character.--Peter cohen —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 12:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Making an appeal against gaol term

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/7027554.stm - needs adding to article, I'm a bit busy at the moment, so am bringing it to the attention of others. --Fredrick day 10:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)