Talk:Chris Benoit/Archive 3

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Archive 3
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Contents

Date of Death

The article says, "Benoit killed himself later Saturday evening or early Sunday morning." According to WWE, Benoit sent text messages early Sunday morning (http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chrisbenoittimeline). It's unlikely he was dead while he sent them. Celedor15 22:24, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Just to be sure, there's no programs that can be told "Send this text message in ## hours." -- Zanimum 14:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Significant formatting errors

Since the page is fully protected— some administrator please fix the "May 21st, 1967" to "May 21, 1967" in the "date of birth" column in the Infobox. Also, the DOD in the intro. says "24 June 2007", while in the Infobox it says "25 June 2007". Really sloppy work folks — John Stattic (talk) 22:39, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. -- Gogo Dodo 23:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

not only in wiki views but in contextual and informative views, alot of the words need to be re-wordked and conjugated to in fact re-inforce the nature of the situation (murder-suicide not "found dead)


just a thought, somewhere out there family of this man's vitims probably would'nt like to know that information is being presented in that fashionWhen1eight=2zeros

Also, it's BELIEVED that it was murder-suicide. Putting it in such solid words, like it's written in stone or something, looks presumptuous so soon after the press release. Until all of the facts are known, the words should be prefaced by such words as "charged of" "accused of" or "believed to be the cause" or something like that. Not all factors have been thought of. What if the murderer was a friend of the family? "No signs of a forced entry" doesn't mean no one came in at all, especially if they were welcomed inside. Until the toxicology results are back, and all signs point to Chris Benoit being the actual murderer, beyond a shadow of a doubt, then we can begin with stating things as if they were facts. AMReese 00:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
the toxicology reports aren't going to point all signs back to Benoit. All we can do is mirror what the media repots since the 'real truth' will never be 100% definate. wikipedia doesn't care about the 'truth' only verifiabiltiy and popular opinion.harlock_jds 00:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. To report it the opposite of what news sources say is POV pushing, and speculation. Whether you believe he did it. Or even if you believe a new suspect will arise, it does not matter. The only thing that matters at this point is what the current sources are saying. If they are wrong, the article can be edited. Thus, there is no need to hedge. The only reason to hedge would be potential libel issues. However, if there is a reasonable attributable source--which we have, there are no libel issues.CraigMonroe 01:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
plus the people likely to sue for libel (Benoit) are dead... that's why their is a difference in the standards between the bio's of living people and non living people.harlock_jds 01:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The one thing I can think of right now is, in regards to the CYA principle (IE: "believed to have caused").. That use of the words "apparent" and "alleged" satisfy that form of neutrality.Garistotle 13:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME, AMReese. Chicablog 17:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Shouldnt it say (Age 40) in his bio box. He still is 40 so it shouldnt be past tense should it? Or does he become past tense since he died?Tyeman64 05:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Tyeman, when someone dies their age becomes past tense. Fourty is the final age he reached; Wikipedia articles do not, for example, cite Shakespeare as 443. It caps at their death, so to speak, and becomes past tense. User:Nowah Balloon Nowah Balloon 07:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

New information regarding Roid Rage

I just turned off CNN, and Glen Beck just had a sports psychologist on saying that if steroid use had been mixed with painkillers, then it could have triggered an episode of paranoia lasting for a fair length of time, up to around two weeks. With how quiet he was naturally, it is doubtful that any of his co-workers would have taken his behavior as anything other than somewhat strange, so we can't rule out steroids as a contributing factor to this crime until the toxicology reports come in. The Hybrid 01:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

A lot of 'experts' say a lot of things. I'm not aware of any studies showing such a thing to occur. I'm aware of no studies that have studied the correlation between AAS and pain killers. We should be hesitant to publish what some random 'expert' says without any actual science behind it. Wikidudeman (talk) 01:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
In a situation like this, it is even more important than ever to rely only on published and reliable sources. It is not our job to "rule out" or "rule in" the possibility of "roid rage". We should only report what is published, not what we think of what was published or what we think should have been published. This rule actually applies to all Wikipedia articles but I remind everyone of it now since it is easy to fall into the trap of trying to figure out what happened. Not our job, folks.
--Richard 01:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't suggest publishing it; I was just saying that we might have been a bit foolish to close our minds so quickly. If, and only if the toxicology reports come back showing that he had both steroids and painkillers in his system would I suggest treating it as anything more than a hypothesis. Also, lecturing is my job, stop it ;P The Hybrid 01:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

He more than likely was using AAS and painkillers, however this doesn't mean that either caused him to lose his mind. Wikidudeman (talk) 01:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
No, but it is a possibility, apparently. We are a couple weeks early to be discussing this, anyway. Even then, in the interest of encyclopedic neutrality, we will have to represent this view if the toxicology report confirms that he was using AAS and painkillers in addition to the WWE's view. Of course, we would never treat it as anything more than a theory, as the only person who knew what was going through Benoit’s head at the time of the murders hung himself. The Hybrid 01:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Several news outlets including Yahoo & ESPN are reporting that his son was retarded/developmentally impaired and being given HGH and/or steroid injections. Yahoo also reports that several co-workers told them that the Benoits had reportedly fought all last week about Chris being gone and his wife being unable to care for Daniel's needs. I just thought that these were important details. Billywhack 02:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Daniel had Fragile X Syndrome. — Moe ε 02:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Moe, please, next time cite a source before making a statement like that. I know the AP made it, but it's not like stuff like that is common knowledge. By the way, we're not trying to figure out the "facts" or decide what can or cannot be published. Net neutrality is still in effect by waiting until all the facts are known. Publishing every single thought that comes out of the case is not being neutral, since the majority of the ones being discussed and cited are ones that point to Benoit being insane. That's not neutrality. That can be conceived as being one-sided. For every citation of Benoit being mentally unbalanced, there should be one for Benoit's clarity. Also, it should be noted that Benoit came out clean during the most recent WWE drug test, which occurred on April 10, 2007, Benoit tested negative, the source being http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/benoitpressrelease , which I think, cannot be denied, since they wouldn't mention such a thing if it could be refuted quickly. AMReese 03:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I have seen several articles that state Daniel had fragile X syndrome. As for him testing negative on April, that still leaves a lot of time between that day and the murders. For all we know he could have started using steroids the day after the testing. Don't get me wrong, I don't think steroids was the cause of these murders, I think he was just plain nuts, I'm just saying that it doesn't really say much that he tested negative two months ago. Dionyseus 03:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
As I had to explain to Moe, I said that I know the Associated Press said it. What I was saying that for the benefit of the casual reader who may not be aware, it would be advisable to cite a source so people could look at it, not to mention know what the heck it is. AMReese 06:53, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The same "expert" on the Glen Beck show claiming that steroids could have caused Benoit to lose his mind also said that there was no valid medical reason for a child to be prescribed Growth Hormones. Of course that's totally false. Wikidudeman (talk) 04:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
He didn’t say “no valid medical reason”; he said that there aren't many, which is true. HGH is usually reserved for people over the age of 12. The Hybrid 20:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
No, He didn't use the words "not many", I believe his direct answere was "of course not, that's crazy" to the question of whether or not HGH could be prescribed to children for medical reasons. Wikidudeman (talk) 20:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Remember, he isn't a pediatrician. I don't think that he was absolute in his answer, as you say, but either way he treats athletes, not mentally handicapped 7-year-olds. We shouldn't throw out what he said because of an answer to a question that he never should have been asked. The Hybrid 21:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
You're right. We should throw out what he said due to the total lack of scientific evidence supporting what he said. Wikidudeman (talk) 21:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Oh, so you're a doctor who has experience in treating athletes who use steroids, and are addicted to painkillers due to always being injured, and not just some enthusiast with no schooling or job experience in this type of thing like the rest of us? The Hybrid 22:28, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
My point being, what makes you as qualified as him to be the judge of what does or does not constitute scientific evidence? The Hybrid 22:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Daniels age

The second paragraph, where it mentions him killing is wife and son, his sons age needs to be added there and also his wifes age. As it is now it is up to the reader to guess their ages, I mean his son could have been an adult for all many readers would know. JayKeaton 03:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Sources Cited

I think that we should delete any sources that end up going to a page that say their source is another site. I think we should just use the original source, and that's it. Piling up on pages is just unnecessary, not to mention misleading the reader. Am I the only one that thinks this? AMReese 03:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

You are probably not the only one who thinks this. However, doing what you propose is only allowed if you have seen the cited source. That is... if you read Book B which cites Book A, you can only drop the citation to Book B in favor of a citation for Book A if you have actually read the relevant passage in Book A yourself. Consult WP:CITE and WP:V. It's in there somewhere.
--Richard 07:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
You can claim reasonable doubt against a website that cites a book as a source, if you don't think the book really said that. But you were questioning a website that is used as a source here, when that website cites its very own source as yet another website. In which case, it is up to you to check that the other website can still act as the source for this article (by which I mean it says the same thing) and you can go ahead and change that source yourself to the original site. Or if the original site is already listed as a source, then just delete it and say in your edit that "it was the same source as the XXXX link". If you are willing to check them and then edit them then hats off to you, you are making wikipedia slightly better, which is great as it will be slightly better than it was before you improved it JayKeaton 08:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Flying Head Butt

Is it possible that years of Concussions from his Flying Head Butt had anything to do with this crazy situation. I heard people say things about it, but almost every match I remember Benoit, if it didn't end in 10 mins with the Crossface, Most times during the match, he did that head butt. Could this have contribuated to his insane act(if he did do such act, again, I'm not telling you how events happened, but I'm guessing).The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 15:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd say its a definite possibility. Again, that ties in with what Christopher Nowinski was saying about the effects of concussions. --Garistotle 15:17, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

He's the one that had that issue with the guy who killed himself right? Or am I confused with the guy who was on the Patriots and he got concussions and Belichick kept putting him in the game.I do know the guy Nowinski was a former wrestler and he's a expert on concussions supposedly. Not sure of his resources and stuff, but am I right in knowledge of him?The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 15:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't buy Nowinski explnation Mick foley has had more shoots to the head and concutions and hasn't gone "insane" ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 15:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but Mick Foley is like the Godfather of Hardcore. No one more hardcore than Mick, and if you don't think Mick is strange too, then you haven't seen a lot of Mick. I read all his book and followed his career for a long time, Mick is a different type of man and wrestler than Benoit. Mick would probably be close to be the type to go crazy, I mean, the man lost a freaking Ear and asked the Nurse for it back in the hospital bed. LOL, that's hardcore!The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 15:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Give Nowinski's therory a chance. He proved Andre Waters' suicide was from lagging symptoms of his numerous concussions. To be fair to Benoit, if there's a theory that has any credibility to it such as this, then test it. Mike 15:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't meen to be spectical about it I just thourt it was strange that mick hasnt ever gone in violenet rages but then I never thought Benoit would ever do that ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 15:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps he's because of the two different styles, since Mick's old style was kind of crazy itself, perhaps he got all his rage out in his Catus Jack Days and allow some crazyness during the Mankind days too.The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 15:41, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

redundancy

This is the quote on the main page introduction..

Benoit later garnered significant notoriety after he killed his wife and child in a murder-suicide. On June 25, 2007, Benoit, his wife Nancy, and their 7 year old son Daniel were found dead in their Fayetteville, Georgia, home at around 2:30 PM EDT.[5] Subsequent investigation confirmed that Chris Benoit had murdered his wife and son and then hanged himself.[6]

Would it maybe display less redundancy if the article only mentioned the muder-suicide once in the introduction? I would rather put the following:

"Benoit later garnered significant notoriety after he killed his wife and child before taking his own life in a murder-suicide. On June 25, 2007, the bodies of all three were found in their Fayetteville, Georgia home."

Of course, sourcing it will be important, but how does that look for formatting's sake? --Garistotle 15:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The cleaned up quote is most definitely a better read. Mike 15:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I changed the quote to roughly what I had there. It eliminates the redundancy, keeps the killing part in the first paragraph and is properly referenced.--Garistotle 15:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the change, though the time the bodies were found can be left for later in the article. CraigMonroe 16:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Benoit Death posted on wikipedia before police find bodies

Check out this story on foxnews.com

[[1]]

- T-75|talk|contribs 17:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Dionyseus 18:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I just read that article too. Looks like they are referring to this edit.↔NMajdan•talk 18:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I remeber hereing somthing like that yesterday on the admin notic board ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 18:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone think that user should be asked where he got the information? --Duality344 18:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

mabye it was a Ip adress they change all the time and we would have slim chance finding him/her ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 18:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
If you look at the other posts for that IP, it's fairly obvious that he's a garden variety vandal, who just happened to be right (although I'm sure he didn't know it at the time) SirFozzie 18:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
wow thats a 1 in a 10000 coincidence ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 18:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

It's spooky that the IP resolves out to Stamford CT... where the WWE headquarters is located.... And that there have been no further edits by that IP MerrimacVI 18:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

If you'll examin the edit history for this talk page, you'll see that this matter has been covered in detail already. Rklawton 18:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see a discussion stating that a user had added the details before they were released by the police --Duality344 18:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

You'll have to look here. Rklawton 18:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks for pointing that out, I see that yet another wiki editor has NO IDEA what "trolling" is, but man do many of them love to use the word. I'm also glad to see that someone thinks they should just delete a conversation and not archive it, leaving it to come back up yet again. - T-75|talk|contribs 19:14, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The thread that he pointed you to was actually the second one the editor deleted. You can view the first one here. Notice not only do those two guys have NO IDEA what it means to troll (and sadly, one of them is an admin), the editor jumped to the top of a thread and told everyone he'd be damned if he would let this discussion continue. The admin blocked him for 1 hour and me for 24 hours. That admin REALLY needs to be reviewed for his actions that night. It's a disgrace. Wesleymullins 20:35, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I also posted about that too man, I remember putting up the link and everything, then the next day when I looked through the archives, the whole entry was gone. Still mystifies me as to who could have had such info some 14 and a half hours before anyone else... -- Shatterzer0 21:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think was just a lucky vandal. In the timeline that the WWE put on their site, they have since taken it down so here's copy from somewhere else, they said that they had been informed of the deaths by the time that edit was made. Someone at the WWE HQ probably made the edit after hearing of the death. ÐeadΣyeДrrow (Talk|Contribs) 19:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

From what I have seen in the past people like to post thier own speculations... So is this just a coincidence? IP Address: 69.120.111.23 resolves to host: ool-45786f17.dyn.optonline.net. I ran NSlookup on the poster. -chadking704

I am the person who ID'd that post here and posted it on this page Monday night. But not only was the thread taken down, an admin blocked me for 24 hours. Looks like lots of other people think it was a legit story too. Scroll back through the archives of this talk page and see an editor and admin really throw up all over themselves with the way they handled this info. Wesleymullins 20:08, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

According to the article, the post was made at 12:01 EST. Which was 12 hours before anyone knew of the deaths. MDowdal 20:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

During the Sunday PPV on other message boards, the rumor I heard was that Benoit missed Vengeance because of something that happened to his wife and that she may have died. She was vomiting apparently. Rumor, of course. So I think this is no big deal.

And I found this on the Wrestling Observer website:

"In a really bizarre story regarding the story going around everywhere about Wikipedia at 4:01 a.m. on Monday posting that Nancy Benoit had passed away, long before authorities knew, and it was removed 20 minutes later due to a lack of confirmation, my belief is that it was nobody who knew anything. The edit came from Connecticut, but not from WWE headquarters. My feeling is that this is just a bizarre coincidence. The WWE later found that on its chat line at 8:41 p.m., during the PPV, after Benoit missed the show, someone on a WWE chat said that he missed the show due to his wife dying. Later, when the person was asked where he heard the story, he said, "Meltzer reported it." An hour later after the Wikipedia entry was taken down, someone from Australia edited it and again put that Nancy Benoit had passed away, attributing it to "several pro wrestling web sites." I didn't know of this until today when questioned by WWE who asked if Benoit had called me, which he hadn't, nor did I report it or know anything until Monday afternoon, after the WWE wrestlers were told. It appears it was a hoax started by someone and given credibility by usage of my name, no more than the daily fake stories people make up on MMA and pro wrestling chat boards, the appear to have led to the Wikipedia edit, this become a big story, and it may be nothing more to the story other than an eerie irony."

--Maestro25 23:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

AP has now posted an article about the anonymous Wikipedia edit. I also heard it on Spanish radio this afternoon. Dionyseus 23:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I have just finished watching CNN report on the Wikipedia anonymous edit. Nancy Grace said that if investigators determine that the anonymous editor is a coworker or a friend of Chris Benoit, he/she could be held liable for the death of Daniel. Dionyseus 00:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


Is it fair to mention in the article that that IP had a (albeit brief) history of vandalism within wikipedia? Nosleep1234 01:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Benoit's doctor's office raided

Police raid office of Canadian wrestler Benoit's doctor. Anchoress 18:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

WWE 'abandon' him

I think it should be added that after WWE relised the truth over the Benoit families death WWE seem to not want anything to do with Chris [except giving info on their last interactions with him]. it does seem a bit important.Mt 1994 19:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

That's not entirely factual. If you look for it, you can find references to him on the WWE site (PPV results and title histories in particular). While they have abandoned him for the most part, especially in their handling after learning of the cause, it's not enough to warrant mention in the article. --Garistotle 20:04, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, lets see. Take for example the death of Eddie Guerrero due to steroids. The WWE embraced his career after his passing and then elected him into the Hall Of Fame. The WWE didn't abandon him as they have done for Benoit. Granted, Benoit's case is much more severe than Eddie's, so he won't be in the hall of fame anytime soon. But I can see where Mt 1994 is coming from. >>'''schism08'''<< 20:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but it isn't a matter of abandoning Benoit. They just aren't embracing him. It isn't that they don't want anything to do with him anymore, they fully acknowledge that he was a fan favorite and one of the best workers that they had. They are simply moving on due to the circumstances. The Hybrid 20:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Owen Hart still is not in the Hall of Fame... I dont think Chris Benoit will ever be in the Hall of Fame. As a preformer he deserves it, but I don't think it is going to happen.
Different situation. 1) The WWE is not abandoning Benoit, they are just not paying homage to a double murderer, which is totally understandable. 2) The WWE didn't kill Benoit, he did that to himself. This page is to improve the article not rant on crazy conspiracy theories. Ramsquire (throw me a line) 21:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

In the uk the repeat of raw isnt the tribute to benoit but todd grisham presenting wwe champion matches so they even stoped the repeats tributing him ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 21:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Owen Hart was going to be inducted alonside his brother bret, but eddie's death obviously prevented that from happening, he will be in at some stageSkitzouk 21:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

daniel Benoit

why does daniel benoit redirect here? ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 20:28, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Because there isnt enough info on Daniel for him to have a full page and everything you need to know about him is pretty much said on the Chris page...

To basically prevent such an article to be created. Apart from his death, he's nowhere notable for one. -- Oakster  Talk  20:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

PWI Insider/AP and TMZ releases

Not to start a rumors or something, but according to PWI Insider, who credits the Associated Press [http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=25195&p=1] (Spam protection filter doesn't allow me to post the link directly), there were "ten empty beer cans found in the Benoit home and an empty bottle of wine was found near Chris Benoit's body."

If it wasn't 'roid rage, then alcoholism could have been a factor.

Also, TMZ.com reports that Benoit's personal physician, Phil Carroll Astin, had a suspension from practice [2] and as mentioned above the doctor's office was raided earlier today.

Also tonight Debra Marshall (Stone Cold Steve Asutin's ex) will appears on Hannity and Colmes tonight, just thought that may be of some significance. — Moe ε 21:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Format of "Noties"

The formating of the "Notes" with a scroll bar is problematic for people who might want to print the article as well as the notes. I have changed it to a double columned note list which would make it possible for printers to print the data. Wikidudeman (talk) 22:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Um, there's a "Printable Version" link on the left sidebar you might want to check out... -- RoninBK T C 08:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia edits

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/06/28/bc.wrestlerdead.ap/index.html?cnn=yes This article is about this wikipedia article FancyPants 22:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

A little weird that this is hitting the news now. We were talking about this on this talk page 2 days ago and got shut up about it. At least it is getting some attention now, hopefully they will figure out who made the edit. Trvr3307 23:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I am the person who broke the story on the Chris Benoit page. Read the thread here. Notice I ended up being blocked for the thread by an admin whose actions need to be reviewed. If you look at all the other references to this story on the Admin pages or elsewhere on wikipedia, they all start to occur about 60-90 minutes after my post on the Chris Benoit talk page. I am responsible for this story. And I got called a troll and got blocked for it. Sometimes you wonder if people here know what they are doing. Wesleymullins 04:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to add that, in case nobody noticed this, this edit was made roughly an hour later, from an IP that most decidedly was nowhere near the first one. I'd like those people to point out where they initially found this info. --Bluorangefyre 05:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I was reading an article...

An interesting article from the AP I found on Comcast.net follows:

“ ATLANTA - Investigators are looking into who altered pro wrestler Chris Benoit's Wikipedia entry to mention his wife's death hours before authorities discovered the bodies of the couple and their 7-year-old son.

Benoit's Wikipedia entry was altered early Monday to say that the wrestler had missed a match two days earlier because of his wife's death.

A Wikipedia official, Cary Bass, said Thursday that the entry was made by someone using an Internet protocol address registered in Stamford, Conn., where World Wrestling Entertainment is based.

An IP address, a unique series of numbers carried by every machine connected to the Internet, does not necessarily have to be broadcast from where it is registered. The bodies were found in Benoit's home in suburban Atlanta, and it's not known where the posting was sent from, Bass said.

Benoit strangled his wife and son during the weekend, placing Bibles next to their bodies, before hanging himself on the cable of a weight-machine in his home, authorities said. No motive was offered for the killings, which were discovered Monday.

 ”

— Curran (talk | contibs | random) 23:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia connection is getting quite a bit of press attention. I just heard it on the radio here in Calgary. Has anyone else noticed that the IP used to post the premature death information also vandalized a number of wrestling-related articles? The first edit listed in the contribution history was just over a month ago and consisted of a pair of rather nasty personal attacks on Stacy Keibler. See here 23skidoo 23:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

This made it to Fox News as well. IrisKawling 00:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
It was a coincidence right, that the user predicted the death? JayKeaton 00:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
It also made it to CNN live TV and I heard it on Spanish radio as well, it's everywhere. The authorities are seriously investigating this. Dionyseus 00:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Almost absolutely a coincidental vandalism. The vandalisms seem to be done by some childish vandal totally unrelated to Benoit as far as I can tell from the content of the vandalisms. For instance these edits [[3]],[[4]], [[5]]. None of these edits seem to be related to Benoit or anything he did. It could have been someone at WWE though, perhaps some employee who knew about the deaths prior to the authorities knowing. But that seems unlikely as well, probably simply some typical vandal who randomly got it right. Wikidudeman (talk) 00:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not so sure that was a random lucky vandal. Looking over the contribs, I think this is an IP that more than one person has access to, based on the edit pattern and the difference in style between two. And it's probably a residential user (most of the edits are in the middle of the night, not usual business hours). The vandal user is the primary one, going in typical sprees days or weeks apart until he's satisfied himself posting racial slurs about Ron Artest (and expressing his dislike for the ending of The Sopranos[6] in similar fashion) and backs off when he gets warned.

But then there's another user, who made the most worthwhile edit from the IP [7], an edit that is pro wrestling-related. This one doesn't follow the other pattern ... it's the only edit made that day, and made in the evening hours. The vandal started things off May 16 (interestingly, on the 16th of both May and June the vandal was most active) with two wrestling-related edits as well:[8], [9]. The vandal may also have provided a clue to their location, as well as some names, here: [10], [11].

I suspect the non-vandal user may have posted the Benoit information. Stylistically it's written like it should be, rather than the vandal's tendency to use racial slurs and profanities.

Just some thoughts from an outside reader, based on experience doing RCP. Daniel Case 03:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The vomiting story Benoit made up was leaked when he didn't make to Texas for the PPV. So that was interpreted as if Nancy had died. That's all it was and IMO not notable to the article. --Maestro25 01:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I checked into the IP address that did the editing can't be pinged which is to say its likely not connected to the internet any longer making investigation harder John7743 03:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

People are continuing to vandalise, calling him Chris "the murderer" Benoit. Can we get some level of higher protection on this page?--Duality344 23:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Like lock it down completely? Probably not going to happen. As it fades from the headlines, the vandalism will fade as well. WiccaWeb 00:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
the vandalisim isn't that bad and i'd rather have that than having to ask mother may i every time i want to make a changeharlock_jds 00:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Ref problem

There is something wrong with one of the ref tags. leading it to include a sub sect (Alcohol consumed in house) in the refrence as well as every other reference that follows. ViridaeTalk

What does this mean?

"Subsequent investigations are ongoing as to whether Chris Benoit had murdered his wife and son and then hanged himself, or whether circumstances appear to be different from the facts.[5]"

What's that mean? I read the citation and it doesn't say anything about the circumstances appearing different from the facts...--SGT Tex 01:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the Illuminati are responsible? No, but seriously, the "official" story usually waits until at least the coroner and cops release a final report of some kind. Until then, it's speculation. WiccaWeb 01:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Ah...so this is just a CYA statement? I think it could be worded better, couldn't it? When I first read that, I did jump to the conclusion that someone was trying to input a conspiracy theory in there (not necessarily the Illuminati, but possibly a Vast Right Wing group like the NRA...or something.)--SGT Tex 01:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Circumstances different to the facts? The facts are facts, there is no different circumstances and there are no investigations into it. Of course the poelice will be looking into it further, but the facts are facts and they have released the facts as facts. He did it and that's how it was done. I suppose you could ad that fans are having trouble dealing with it, but that's about as far as I would go JayKeaton 01:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


That is not NPOV and needs to be changed. Nosleep1234 01:30, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree. This is the only edit made by that account. I'm changing it back to what it said to begin with.--SGT Tex 01:33, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Better wording, but the formatting needs to be fixed. I don't know what the correct format is or I'd just do it myself. Nosleep1234 01:38, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

All right, looks good. Nosleep1234 01:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The text messages

They were sent shortly before 4 AM Sunday morning. Did he send them after he was already dead? I think this pretty definitively nails his date of death down as 6/25. Nosleep1234 01:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Obviously I meant 6/24, and fixed my own errant edit. Nosleep1234 01:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The Fox News Channel is reporting that an investigation has been launched regarding an entry made on Wikipedia that apparently noted the death of Nancy Benoit fourteen hours before the Benoit family was discovered deceased in their Fayetteville, GA home. Investigators want to know who made that entry, and there is speculation that it could have been Chris Benoit himself. Benoit sent strange text messages to friends and John Laurinaitis prior to the wrestler taking his own life. What do you guys think about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wwemaniac1 (talk • contribs)

Opinions about it are all over the page. DurinsBane87 01:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The problem with this speculation is that Chris was at his house near Atlanta, Georgia - and the anonymous editor who entered the information about the death of Nancy (link to the actual edit) before the police found the bodies had an IP address that originated at Stamford, Connecticut - WWE headquarters! Aburesz 02:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
apparently all WWE wrestlers (at least the ones at benoit's level) have a WWE laptop and VPN access to the internal network so he could have posted from Atlanta and gotten a CT IP addy. However i would guess the IP would have been traceable to the WWE. Judgeing from the IP's edit history i'm betting it was an anon user trying to make another sick joke vandal edit which just happened to be true.harlock_jds 12:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, looks like the media found out about this too.Warrush

Chronology

Does anyone think that the information be presented chronologically instead of in the order the information was made available? --Semidelicious 02:33, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Chopper Dave 05:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Text Messages

In the text messages bit, it has the address of the house. I was wondering if that should be removed for privacy reason if anybody actually goes there or finds it through google earth. --Sha0000 02:59, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Many news sites, as well as wrestling sites have already posted the contents of the text messages. So, I'd say it's in the public domain. Therefore, no need to remove them. Socby19 05:59, 29 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19

Separate Article?

The section about his death is getting kinda long. I say separate it so there's less vandalism on this article. D4S 04:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I strongly oppose that suggestion, a lone report about someone's death has absolutely no encyclopedic value. The death wouldn't be so long if the the editors of the article would stop writing the death like a news report, Wikipedia is not here for reporting news, that's what Wikinews is for. All we have to say is that he is recently deceased, and that the events surrounding his death are speculated by police to be Double Homocide-Suicide involving his wife and son, and that the case is still under investigation. --VorangorTheDemon 08:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
It would make more sense to put his career in a different article if the page was getting too long, although even that itself makes little sense. The best solution would be to delete a large chunk of his career JayKeaton 09:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I oppose another article. There's no reason for it to be long. Keep it short. Wikidudeman (talk) 09:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I think we should just wait for things to calm down and then compress the death section down to a reasonable length. Hopefully by then we'd have the full story too. DrWarpMind 11:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Agree. It is always an issue trying to make sure that recent events don't unbalance the entry just because things are still developing. When the facts are out the section can be made into a more compact section. {{Emperor 12:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC))

Sequence of events

I am confused regarding the sequence of events. At what time did he send the text messages and at what time was he clinically dead? Pratyush

There hasn't been an official word on the exact time of death. All reports indicate that the text messages weren't received until after Benoit was presumed dead (6/24, between 3:51am and 3:58am), but I haven't seen anything confirming when Benoit sent the messages. The cell phone is in police custody; I'm actually very curious why they haven't cleared this up yet. Nowah Balloon 11:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Probably because it's still an ungoing investigation...Police are like that.

Someone else involved?

It's very curious to know that this diff was the subject of a short blurb in the Washington Post's Express newspaper this morning. After I read it, I looked up the history of the article to see it. The actual source is here on page 3 --sumnjim talk with me·changes 12:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

(IPA: [běn'hwäh]) is not a correct IPA transcription. Somebody please fix it.

I know it's pronounced like ben-wah. I don't know about IPA, but if there is a more correct version, please be bold. --sumnjim talk with me·changes 13:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
All right. Fixed it to (IPA: [bə'nwɑ]) in accordance with IPA chart for English and International Phonetic Alphabet for English. Tomasboij 13:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Investigation into Benoit and Wikipedia

Kind of weird that they got people investigating this page for clues when we been doing that on this page for the since the night he died and it was reported. When I found out that they were looking at this page in their investigation, I was like, wow...I post on that page. LOL The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 13:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes I find this News item very interesting[12]. Is that already part of the article too?? --- A. L. M. 14:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Look 2 sections up and I posted another link to a small article on it as well. --sumnjim talk with me·changes 14:57, 29 June 2007 (UTC)