User talk:Chopper Dave

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[edit] Question

Hare Krishna! You state (uncorrected) "I appriciate you want to contribute but your use of Weasel Words, POV statements and lack of references downgrades the article" Can you clarify "weasel words" and POV please? While it is correct that I did not add (or remove) any of the scant references, I was surprised to hear that you found it "downgraded the article" from what and from whose POV? I just felt it was appropriate to change the tone from an unsubstantiated personal CV and an advertisement of musical output. I do appreciate that Wikipedia is not a forum for personal vendetta or controversy, but surely there should be some acknowledgement of the problems to thousands of sincere disciples, abuse of power, money and subsequent falldown of these controversial personalities! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.14.16.166 (talk) 02:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Six Goswamis

Hi Dave - I've eventually got round to looking at the Six Goswamis of Vrindavan article and associated pages. Thought that you might like to take a look in case anything has been missed out? A few of the individual Goswami pages still need a substantial tidy-up in my opinion. Ys, GourangaUK 15:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Hari. I haven't had a chance to check the pages out yet, but will endeavour to do so in the future. Thank you for the notice :) Hare Krishna Chopper Dave 18:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Devamrita Swami

Just out of curiosity, what ethnicity is he then? If he's not Indian was he initiated by Srila Prabhupada?Bakaman Bakatalk 16:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you asking about Devamrita or is this Devamrita asking about someone else? I am new to this discussion format in Wiki. Dev is black american from Philadelphia. His father lives in Bermuda and I used to rent motor bikes from him in Hamilton when I was a teenager. -- Hari
I'm not entirely sure, but I know for a fact that he's not Indian. He was initiated by Srila Prabhupada yes. Chopper Dave 18:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


I've been working on Category:American Hindus, Category:Converts to Hinduism, and Category:Indian Americans . Thanks to ISKCON's efforts the first two are beginning to fill up.Bakaman Bakatalk 19:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
A book on devamrita swami has just came out, he was the first african american to become a major figure in iskcon.Bakaman 22:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure where you got this information. Or rather, I am not sure what you mean by a 'major figure.' Dinanath was a very major figure in ISKCON as he brought new forms of kirtan into a simplistic kirtan environment. Even Bhakti Tirtha was more prominent as a member of the library party. Just my two cents here since I have known Devamrita Swami since he was a bhakta. -- Hari
The book he is referring to is called "Black Lotus", and is about Bhakti Tirtha Maharaja. Chopper Dave 22:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Krishnawithflute.jpg

Govinda with surabhi cows - Thanks for all your edits to the Krishna, ISKCON & JPS pages
Govinda with surabhi cows - Thanks for all your edits to the Krishna, ISKCON & JPS pages

Hi Chopper - there are debates going on over a number of fair-use BBT images at the moment. See Image talk:Samsara.jpg. It's looking like they are going to be removed unless something changes. It will be a shame for the articles as the images add a lot to the written descriptions. There is this image of Krishna in the commons, it's a transcendental 'Barnstar'. Hare Krishna, ys, GourangaUK 23:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I've replaced the main image on the Krishna article with a painting which is more than 200 years old, and thus copyright free. I would have like to keep the painting you had uploaded of Krishna with the flute, but it doesn't look possible under the fair-use tag. Ys, GourangaUK 21:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki Links

Thought you might find these useful for use in articles - Hare Krishnas and Hare krsna (which I've redirected today to the main Hare Krishna). Ys, Gouranga(UK) 09:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Articles

Hi Dave - Good job on the articles, I'll add what information I can. Might be difficult to get solid details on all of the eleven, but it would be useful to have what is available together in one page. Ys, Gouranga(UK) 11:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] ISKCON after 1977

Hari Dave, following your suggestion I've mocked up a new section for the Iskcon page, see: User:GourangaUK/Sandbox. It's missing a few details that you might have to hand, such as the date the GBC started and number of members? Let me know what you think and feel free to edit it if you think anything needs improving. Best Wishes, ys, Gouranga(UK) 11:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it's almost there now - any thoughts on the Sandbox? Regards, Gouranga(UK) 15:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Re:Prabhupada article

Agreed - in fact I've removed the entire section because it is already covered in much greater detail in the main ISKCON article. Looking through it today I think the Prabhupada article could do with some more work to expand it. Would you agree? Ys, Gouranga(UK) 12:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dhira

Hi Dave, I've added a link in World fusion music. Do you think Hindu music would be appropiate also? Ys, Gouranga(UK) 08:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Disciplic Succession Table

Hari Dave, there is a similar table in the Mahabharata article -Mahabharata#Kuru_family_tree (not sure if that's what sparked off the idea?). It might take some experimenting to get the chart to work right but could help in explaining things. Where were you thinking of including it - in the Gaudiya Vaishnavism article? Or within ISKCON? Or Vaishnavism generally? Ys, Gouranga(UK) 10:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] book

Have you read "Krishna Consciousness in the West" by Bromley and Shinn? Its a pretty good book on ISKCON, and gives a balanced view on criticism and its origins.Bakaman

No I haven't read that particular book - looking it up it's quite expensive. However if I see it sometime, i'll check it out, thank you Chopper Dave 22:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Straight Edge?

Hare_Krishna_in_popular_culture#Straight_Edge_subculture

Hi D, would you know of any goods refs for the above section? Or where to look? Gouranga(UK) 15:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Swami Bhaktimarga

He seems quite notable, do you know more about him? I came across while reading this article.Bakaman 00:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Notability

Hi Dave, I tagged a few articles, which I felt do not meet the Wikipedia:Notability guidelines. My main concern is that while the people in question may be (or have been) notable in ISKCON, they are not otherwise notable, or no references demonstrating their notability have been provided. In some instances an article would contain only a few lines about a subject that could easily have been included on one of the main ISKCON articles. Since I have tagged a few articles in the ISKCON category, if you should want more clarifications on what I meant on a case to case basis, please feel free to ask me or discuss it on the article in question's discussion page. Thanks, Sfacets 01:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Rukmini-Dwarakadisa.jpg

Are you sure the image of the goddess is of Rukmini and not Radha. Because the iconography is of Radha with the Krishna with flute. Also, Rukmini became the wife of Krishna long after his days as flute-playing herdsman in Vrindavan.--Redtigerxyz 13:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Are really sure because in ISKON temples and mostly all over Northen India, Krishna is worshipped with Radha ; it only in southern India one can find Krishna with Rukmini and Satyabhama worshipped and envisioned together and only with Rukmini as Vithoba form in Maharashtra.--Redtigerxyz 13:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks.--Redtigerxyz 14:02, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prabhupada

Many thanks, prabhu. Do you happen to know which DVD this is mentioned in?

Henrydoktorski (talk) 04:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the answer to this is on the first of the "Following Srila Prabhupada" DVD's. One devotee retells the story, that goes something along the lines of the devotees finding out that the appendix 'ji' is third class. They ask Prabhupada what a first class name for the Spiritual Master is. He gives 3 answers - Gurumaharaja, Gurudeva, and Prabhupada. The devotee picked Prabhupada and it hence forth remained fixed. Ys Nitai-nam das Chopper Dave (talk) 03:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:A._C._Bhaktivedanta_Swami_Prabhupada"

[edit] Reliable sources

Hello Chopper Dave. On your recent edits to the Devamrita Swami article you removed the Fact tags. In removing them in some places you replaced them with references from personal web pages. Please remember that these are NOT Wikipedia:Reliable sources and do not pass for real references, especially not enough to remove the Fact tag. I ask you to please reconsider these edits. Best! Ism schism (talk) 22:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Here are three examples... Specifically I mean sources such as a personal website, http://www.devaswami.com or a blogspot such as, http://prabhupada.blogspot.com/2007_04_08_archive.html or editorials such as, http://www.dandavats.com/?p=1840. I do not believe that these would ever qualify as independent Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 23:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I will place a Fact tag on anything that us not sourced period. Also if it is not sourced by a reliable source then it has no real reference. Regardless of who knows what the seven purposes of ISKCON are, there is no reference and no citation of a reference. I am not saying the seven purposes don't exist, but to be on wikipedia - it must be referenced. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 19:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Then you stick your fact tag at the top of that section where it says the seven purposes are, not on the end of one of the purposes. Otherwise it looks like the reference is for the particular purpose. That's why i'm asking if you're actually reading what you're tagging. 20:03, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pleae note

  • Please note that concerning ISKCON religious leaders, I have consulted the Wikipedia: Reliable Sources Noticeboard. I have enquired concerning the notability of the members of ISKCON's GBC. I hope that this might start a process to examine sources for ISKCON religious leaders. Any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. The page is at: [1]. Ism schism (talk) 08:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria for notable religious leaders in ISKCON

  • Question On the official Governing Body Commission website it states that there are "around 48" members. [2] So my question is are all 48 notable due to membership on the GBC of ISKCON? These 48 could be a good starting place for a discussion on a minimum standard for notablilty for religious leaders in ISKCON. I believe there needs to be some criteria set for establishing, "what is a notable ISKCON religious leader?" Any thoughts? Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 06:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussions on notability criteria for ISKCON religious leaders

Discussions on notability criteria for ISKCON religious leaders are located at: Wikipedia talk:Hinduism-related topics notice board, Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion, and Wikipedia talk:Notability (people). Ism schism (talk) 10:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable sources for ISKCON related articles

  • I have added some ISKCON related websites to the reliable sources notice board at [3]. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 17:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ISKCON articles - clean up

Hi Chopper Dave,

After looking at all the articles which are on Wikipedia in regards to figures in ISKCON, I would argue that the one's below are all noteworthy enough to be kept (or merged elsewhere), even if in some circumstances they require a lot of clean-up, or pov removal. What are your thoughts?



  • Hari Sauri Dasa - very noteworthy in ISKCON, but sources may be an issue?
  • Indradyumna Swami - very noteworthy in ISKCON, but sources may be an issue?
  • Radhanath Swami - very noteworthy in ISKCON, but sources may be an issue? (some now included - do you have details of the new biographical book?)
  • Sacinandana Swami - very noteworthy in ISKCON, but sources may be an issue?




Do you feel there are any more that should be kept or not? (Note: I havn't included the articles which I felt may not be noteworthy enough in the above). Regards, Gouranga(UK) (talk) 11:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] ISKCON work group

Hey. The reason why there hasn't been one so far is that up until now, only Gouranga and I have been working on ISKCON articles. If you think there is use, than I don't disagree with the idea. Chopper Dave (talk) 17:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
The discussion is located at, ISKCON work group or subproject. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 19:44, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vaishnavism wikiproject

Hello Chopper Dave. I have added the above discussion discussion to the Vaishnavism Wikiproject talk page at, Vaishnavism's relation to Vedic religion. Please feel free to add any comments. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 16:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Krishna article and avatar discussion

[edit] Religious Infobox

Responded on the, Template talk:Infobox ReligiousBio page -- Esemono (talk) 03:22, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vaisnava-Sahajiya and Vaishnavism

Please note the discussion on Vaisnava-Sahajiya and Vaishnavism, per Sri Ramananda Raya article. The discussion is located at, Vaisnava-Sahajiya and Vaishnavism. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 21:39, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada call

Chopper Dave, you were one of the editors who contributed to the above article. Since the article has stabilised and I have added proper references as well as provided a NPOVs references, I suggest final edits by the editors who were contributing to the article. Following the general proofing and copyedit, I would suggest nominating it towards GA (Good Article). Wikidās-ॐ 14:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Image:Krishna-arjuna-cleanup.jpg

A tag has been placed on Image:Krishna-arjuna-cleanup.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I8 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is available as a bit-for-bit identical copy on the Wikimedia Commons under the same name, or all references to the image on Wikipedia have been updated to point to the title used at Commons.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. BJTalk 14:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)