User talk:Chochopk/Archive 4

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ChoChoPK's talk archives
	Archive 1 (6)	< 2006-01-01
2006-01-01 ≤	Archive 2 (22) (6 m.)	< 2006-07-01
2006-07-01 ≤	Archive 3 (48) (3 m.)	< 2006-10-01
2006-10-01 ≤	Archive 4 (47) (3 m.)	< 2007-01-01
2007-01-01 ≤	Archive 5 (71) (3 m.)	< 2007-04-01
2007-04-01 ≤	Archive 6 (49) (3 m.)	< 2007-07-01
2007-07-01 ≤	Archive 7 (24) (6 m.)	< 2008-01-01
2008-01-01 ≤	Current

Specification table

Well, for technical parameters I would give data which can be measured: either in grams, millimeters or percents. Although the edge does not show such variations as the obverse and reverse of the coin, it is - in my opinion - still rather part of design than the technical parameters. The coin catalogs I used also mentioned edge design in the descripion section. It is also true that many coins have plain or milled edge, but I think there's a tendency to make it more diverse - like in the case of euro coins to help blind people.

Another thing. Is it possible to create a template for banknote and coin tables? Cause if we (i mean wikipoject:numismatics members) can come to a consent on what to include in the tables and what details should be included only in the articles for the individual coins and banknotes, it would be a much more convenient way to create (or reorganize) these tables.

I still owe you (and all the interested wikipedia readers) with the pengő inflation data - I just have too much to do in real life, but I didn't forget it.

About the inflation data source: I think it is okay to cite any of the recognized sources in the box, with the indication of the source, naturally. If there are more sources, it is worth mentioning them (wih links) in the economy-related part of the article, so people who are intersted in the economic aspect of a certain currency can easily find reliable sources.

(I have to note silently that inflation is a parameter rather related to the economy than the currency of a given country. Especially in the case of the euro: even international retail companies tend to practice different price policies in the differnet euro-zone members. So the inflation of the euro-zone is a data that naturally has an interpretation but it is not as useful as the data of the different member countries. And not to mention Montenegro, who is also using the euro while not being an euro-zone member. Moreover, inflation is a data that can be calculated in different ways. So this needs a solution as well to show relevant and reliable info in the currency articles: maybe not only the source but the method of calculation and the referred area should be mentioned as well - at least in the article.)Timur lenk 13:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I understand. I'll keep on doing it in this way. But we still need the contribution of other numismatist wikipedians to set up the standards for the tables, which is accepted by everyone.Timur lenk 08:15, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It would be much more precise and useful for people interested in economics. Timur lenk 08:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I support both of your ideas. By the way, watermark is only one of the security features, UV-die images are pretty common as well. Maybe security features should be detailed at one place somehow. Tell me your opinion please.Timur lenk 14:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is okay to describe all security features in the individual article. I am not sure how to handle watermarks. In most cases - as far as I know - watermarks are showing the same image as the obverse of the note, or the same design for all denomination (e.g. pre-1993 Polish złoty banknotes or pre-1997 Austrian Schilling bills), or they just provide a periodicly repeating background (some early 1990s russian notes for example). While the UV-ink pictures are usually different: they show images related to the person in the case of Hungarian forint bills, while in the case of Slovak koruna, it shows the denomination. There might be a problem in finding out the watermark image for obsolate banknotes that we dont have. Maybe the best is to indicate under descripion after obvers and reverse. I let you decide it :-)Timur lenk 19:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

RfA

I'm sorry you had to withdraw. I was about to vote for ya, really no one knows how to use those tools till they become admin. Anyways, don't give up and get the experience they thought you should have. No time, you'll be back up there.

Joe I 06:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Template

Hello, thanks for your information on referencing, can you check to see if this is right mate? {{Japanese currency and coinage}}, not sure on the issue of older coins and banknotes. Enlil Ninlil 07:38, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Award

I, Joe I, award Chochopk this barnstar for all your contributions to Numismatic articles. You're a great asset. :)

Money image copyright licence tag

Hey Chochopk, I need to find out something about the copyright licence for the bill and coin images on wiki commons. Since they have no licence tag like the {{money}} on English wikipedia, so I don't know how to find a correct tag - maybe the best would be to move it to the English wikipedia. I would be very happy if you had some idea...Timur lenk 14:20, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

??

No, not at all - please see Featured articles Canada, India and Australia - in fact they ALWAYS go at the see also section, that's what it is for see also box.. please dont undo all my edits, it is already taking me a lot of time trying to put them there Baristarim 05:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Its ok, i understand what you mean though.. before I started creating the box, i asked around a lot and made a lot of search.. Then nearly all the people who have been around wiki for sometime told me that the box serves as a kind of see also.. So I am putting it there, even though I had thought of putting them at the bottom at first.. apparently this exception only applies to topics in x boxes though :))) cheers!Baristarim 06:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Indonesian rupiah

Hi how are you? Yes sure I can do that, but, hmm, why didn't anyone tell me before I made that? Heheheh, okay, I will work on it. Does it really has to be the same? Cheers -- Imoeng 04:44, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'll do my best, cause I am pretty busy with Indonesia. Good luck on the campaign though. Cheers -- Imoeng 04:50, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

British Commonwealth numismatics

Chochopk, British Commonwealth numismatic subjects are usually classified by geographical region. For example, Banknotes of Somaliland is usually placed under British African numismatics, because Somaliland is a former British colony. - (Paisleyite1976 00:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC))

Re:Infobox central bank

Well I intended that the duplicates from the article body be removed (i.e. that it only be in the infobox). I don't know what you'd think about that. But about adding stuff, go for it (Established/Foundation, seems so obvious, I don't know why I didn't think of it) - ^Рэд_хот 17:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I'd strongly support all the additions you mentioned (I couldn't remember what the others were when I was writing the first reply) - ^Рэд_хот 17:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, since you didn't, I just added "President" and "Established" to the infobox. I forgot about reserves, so I'm doing it now. - ^Рэд_хот 17:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem. this way I get credit! ;) - ^Рэд_хот 17:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah those changes seem fine. I don't really mind removing the printer and mint but I personally prefer the lines seperating each section not touching the sides (it just looks better IMO) - ^Рэд_хот^{(t • c • e)} 19:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Spelling of millimetre/millimeter

Hello Chochopk,

I think making a parameter to the template like british_english = Y to override millimeter with millimetre (or US_Eng = Y to override millimetre with millimeter) would be a great idea. Without such a parameter editors won't want to use the template if the article is written in Commonwealth English (a more appropriate name than British English but that's a different question). The template would be useless for articles on UK, Irish, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, etc. currency if it could only use millimeter. Jimp 04:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it will have to have a default value. It really doesn't matter which that default is. "2/3 of the native speaks [sic] are from the U.S.A." that's a fair enough reason to choose US English I guess ... unless it turns out that the majority of articles which will be using the template are written with Commonwealth spelling.

It's not so much political inappropriateness of the term British English. It's just a question of accuracy. There's US spelling and there's the way the rest of the English speaking world spells (with some variation). This is why I prefer the more inclusive term. But, hey, it's only a parameter, right? Convienence to the editor should probably take priority over accuracy.

Commonwealth Spelling is the most accurate term to use in text that readers might see but it would be a tedious thing to have to type into a template which only editors are going to see. If it's something that is just typed in to the template and not seen by readers perhaps something as simple as UK_Eng would be best and let accuracy be forgot. Jimp 05:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

"we the editors should cater to the readers" I couldn't agree more. Your proposal sounds good. Good luck with the template. However, I do wonder whether british_english might not be rather long as well. How about BrE? I think that this would be a well understood abbreviation. BrE even redirects to British English on Wikipedia. Jimp 06:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Icelandic króna

Some misunderstanding. Reverted it back to the old version.

CGU

I'm glad someone continues the edit for CGU because frankly I know very little about them except that I own 4 bills that were never put in circulataion. I noticed that in the list of "currencies not in use" they were not listed and since I have them I added them. I have been trying forever to find who is the person on the bill, and you answerd that in less than a few hours of my upload. You are right the first image I uploaded was a mistake, it was missing a part. I am kind of new at Wikipedia, so I don't know how to remove a picture nor much about Commons. Will try that next time. I am a bit confused though about the subdivisions you added (cents). Were those coins? Anyway I look forward to seeing the section grow. P jeric 08:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the white spaces and uploaded to commons and replaced the pics in the article. My collection is in Canada, and I currently live in Vietnam, so all I have with me is a scan in pdf file from which I had to extract the images, so I don't know if picture quality would be better if it is a direct scan but for now it will have to do. I was wondering if you could do something I am not sure how: check the licensing on Commons for the pictures, to me it is a bit confusing I am not sure if I licensed it correctly ( I said material is over 70 years old), and then maybe remove the old pictures from Wikipedia if that is possible. Thanks, To answer your question I am a collector but not a very active one, I just happen to be in a family where people travel a lot so I always got a lot of money from other countries which I guess is not of great value. I do have a few valuble items in terms of age and rarety and these particular bills were a birthday gift.P jeric 02:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Re Gibraltar pound

Hi Chochopk,

your edit [3] broke some of the layout...

Thank you for your alert. What in the edit do you advise created the problem?  Regards, David Kernow (talk) 01:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
PS Your revert removed some other unrelated work. Please diff before reverting; thanks. David (talk) 02:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It was broken because {{Exchange Rate}} involves some parser function like #if. I understand what you're trying to do. If what you intend to do did not break the exchange rate section, the output perceived by the reader would be the same. So I decided to act quickly and did a straight revert. Regards, --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Understood; thanks for your explanation. A sensitive template that I'll try to remember!  Best wishes, David (talk) 05:15, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Re Infobox and nav box

Hi again Chochopk,

It looks like you are interested in template development too, and contribute a lot on Infobox Country. I would like to work with you on this. I understand that there exists some root template for navigation, such as {{Navigation}}. And because of your edit, I found out about {{Navbox generic}}. This categorized nav box appears to be suitable for currency nav box. I hope to migrate all such nav box listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics#Templates that fall into this category with {{Navbox generic}}. But of course, first sandboxed and then released at the same time. What do you think? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 05:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Template editing is something I've found myself trying to do recently rather than by design, so I must admit my experience is very much ad hoc; e.g. I haven't yet examined the (many?) various navbox templates there seem to be (one of which, for instance, may be more appropriate than the {{Navigation}} I've recently tried with {{Currencies of Europe}}). So this should be an opportunity for me to learn more about these templates; I'll visit Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics#Templates and leave a message there/here/in both places. Thanks for your offer!  David Kernow (talk) 16:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Update

I've now scanned some of the templates at WP:NUMIS – in particular the Regional templates onward – and agree that a differently-styled navigation box ought to be an improvement; there seems to be too much space left unused in some of these templates, which also leads to some of them looking somewhat unbalanced. {{Navbox generic}} looks a decent alternative; maybe you could convert two or three of the current templates as a test to see how they look. If/when you decide to do so, point me toward the result!  Meanwhile, I suppose I could try one or more of the other navbox templates...?  Yours, David (talk) 15:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Mass or weight?

Hey, I've noticed you changed mass for weight in the coin description tables. Since the data is given in grams, and it is a unit of mass instead of weight, the correct name of this data is mass. The concept of mass and weight is often mistaken - that's why most coin catalogs use weight - Wikipedia is the best place to put things in their right place.Timur lenk 18:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that there are many countries with no coin and/or banknote table at all. Since Wikipedia is in continuous progress, I suggest creating these tables (using banknote catalogs or central bank homepages) even with some data and/or image missing, which could be filled in or uploaded later.Timur lenk 19:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I can change weights according to your list. I agree that linking years is useless. I don't even think that any of the years/dates regarding coin/note circulation should be linked - only the introduction and withdrawal of a currency. I just used it since you told me that this format is useful for users with different date format. I agree that reliable data is the highest priority. That's why it is useful to check each others job. Thus we have to create clear and easily understandable specifications for tables and articles.

Another thing. I still seek your help what to do with copyright policy for money images on wiki commons. At least the coins should make no problem to be pictured - I don't think a photo of a sculpture or plaquette would violate copyrights. Presenting obsolate banknotes should be an easy task as well. Anyway, i am looking forward your opinion. Thx, Timur lenk 17:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Cloud 9 disaster

I removed your comments about the "How many people died on Cloud 9?" from the "Lay Down Your Burdens" article - first off it is uncyclopedic to ask a question in a header - second, everything you wrote is fan speculation, and you use another fan-made site as a resource - again uncyclopedic and based on original research. Please refrain from adding fan statements to articles. Cyberia23 04:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, ignore this. It wasn't you it was some anon user, I misread the history. I apologize. Cyberia23 05:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Split

I agree that huge tables overgrow the articles. However, the name of the separate coin and banknote articles should be considered well, and then used consistently. For coins, I support currency name + coins, like Hungarian forint coins. For bills, something similar should be used, but not banknote, since banknotes are not covering the whole scale of paper money (just remember US treasury notes). The name "bill" is okay for Wiki Commons, but does not sound too encyclopedic (for me). Paper money would be alright (like Hungarian forint paper money), but I am not a native speake rof English, so I am awaiting your suggestions.Timur lenk 11:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Pakistani rupee

The picture was deleted again, if it is deleted Again i suggest either a partial edit ban or restore the picture at a later date. Thankyou Enlil Ninlil 05:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

This is not an accurate picture of the note. You can check it from the official site of state bank of Pakistan. I may have posted the accurate picture but i don't know how to do it. AhmadButtar

Plz have a look at my discussion page. AhmadButtar

Symbol for florins

I believe that your recent edits to the list of circulating currencies page are a bit questionable. The common currency symbol for the florin is “ƒ”. The information that you retrieved from the Web site of the Central Bank of Aruba and that of the Bank of the Netherlands Antilles, I believe is, is generally meant for foreigners and that “ƒ” is used in both territories as the common currency symbol (see here and here). Also, I think it’s better for the list of circulating currencies page to contain only the symbols used locally, not international symbols (i.e.: “$” instead of “A$” for the Australian dollar). I’ll precede to revert the edits. – Zntrip 00:11, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Irish punt

There's a discussion going on as to whether we should use the name punt or pound for this currency. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Dove1950 00:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Naming scheme

Well, I understand your point. For example, in the article Hungarian forint coins there are not only forint but fillér coins, too. But in most cases I think the coins and paper money names can be applied. In other cases, we have to find out the best (and not misleading) name. I am waiting your ideas.

For the table footnotes, my opinion is that language should be indicated if it is more than one or not the official or most widely spoken language. Date should be indicated if other then ce (like in the case of taiwan). Anyway, I am still not sure whether to include these data in the tables or in the article. In the case of pengő, there are many tables for the different series, but the language is almost the same. While in the case of Czechoslovak koruna, the language order changes by banknotes, so it does fit well into a table. So, if we have data which is rather the character of the individual banknotes than the series, I'd put it in the article, not just in the end. (And after all, if we put everything into tables, what will remain in the article itself?)Timur lenk 08:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, we must find a concept to include any kind of banknotes, state notes, treasury notes, coupons and so on - regardless the material they are printed on. What about "money notes"? (After the WWI, special round cardboard "paper coins" were designed by orell füssli, but never introduced) Coins of the Hungarian forint and Money notes of the Hungarian forint sound okay, but want to know your opinion as well - and some native English speaker who is familiar with numismatics and naming convention in the English numismatic literature. Bill does not sound encyclopedic for me.Timur lenk 09:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

In Hun, we use pénzjegy as a concept for any kind of note-like money (pénz = money, jegy = note, ticket). This is equivalent with the German r Geldschein (s Geld = money, r Schein = note, ticket, certificate). Bill would be a good equivalent, but since I am not a native speaker, we need the help of others to find out if it fits into the encyclopedia. As far as I know, bill is American English.Timur lenk 09:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, what if we use bill for notes? If you oppose, be it banknote. And if we came to a consent, let's move tables (with considerable size) to such articles. For the table foot notes, I'd rather write such info into the article, but I don't oppose. I just think, there are many articles which contain similar infos in similar order, but I am not sure that everything should be included in a table. Again, I don't oppose, just would like you to consider this. Could I ask you to answer here? Ta, Timur lenk 18:00, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't know you'd prefer conversation in the same place. Currently, there are the following banknote articles:

• Euro banknotes
• Federal Reserve Note
• Sterling banknotes
• Polish coins and banknotes
• Canadian banknotes
• Hong Kong banknotes
• Norwegian banknotes

• Austro-Hungarian gulden paper money
• Austro-Hungarian krone paper money
• Hungarian pengő paper money
• Hungarian forint paper money
• Czech koruna paper money

And these coin articles

• Euro coins
• United States coinage
• British coinage
• Polish coins and banknotes
• Canadian coinage
• Coins of Canada
• Hong Kong coinage
• Norwegian coins
• Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
• Coins of South Africa
• Coins of the South African Republic
• Australian coins
• Modern Indian coins

• Falkland Islands coins
• Gibraltar coins
• Guernsey coins
• Isle of Man coins
• Jersey coins
• St Helena and Ascension coins

• Austro-Hungarian gulden coins
• Austro-Hungarian krone coins
• Hungarian pengő coins
• Hungarian forint coins
• Czech koruna coins

I still feel that banknote seems to be the norm. And when banknote is inappropriate, such as for adopengo or Chinese customs gold unit, then "banknote" can be changed to "paper money". And using "Banknotes of ..." and "Coins of ..." formats would fit nicely with the naming pattern of History of the United States dollar and History of the rupee. If we do come to a consensus, we should propose to the project first and then carry out.

As for table format, I agree that not everything should be put in the table. Text is better for historical development, analysis, debates, etc. I started thinking about this because I saw a massive addition to South Korean won and South Korean hwan by a Korean expert. In particular, the South Korean currency is a perfect demonstration of the gradual phasing out of Hanja (Chinese characters in the Korean language) in favor of Hangul (native alphabet of the Korean language), and the abolishment of Dangi era (where 2333 BC is year 1) in favor of CE. These changes usually occurs from series to series. "Calendar system = Dangi era" seems more like data, specification to me, while "The Dangi era was ablished on the constitution change of 1962 (third republic) under president Park Chung Hee" appears to me more appropriate for text. However, I have not come up with a way to address the "many series would have the same values" problem. What do you think is the best way to handle the example of the South Korean currency, the Taiwanese currency, Arab currencies where ٥, which looks like zero, is actually 5. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Ad 1. Regarding the zero like 5, write the actual western style number in brakets, if any chance for misunderstanding.

Ad 2. If there's such tendency like you wrote about above, i would write it into the articles. I am not familiar with these writing systems, so I need more info than waht could be included in a table, but I don't wanna read a whole article about them. So a small description like you gave above is the best for me - but this is only my opinion.

Ad 3. Thanks for giving that list above. As I see, we have only Some country's coins and Some country's banknotes articles. I prefer what you supposed: Coins/Banknotes of the xy currency - so sort by currency systems not countries. Be it banknotes, if there are only banknotes (e.g. for Hungarian forint: Banknotes of the Hungarian forint), and paper money, if there are other than banknoets (Paper money of the Hungarian korona). Hope this coincides with your ideas, if not please clarify. It is still a question to create names for different currency systems bearing the same currency unit name (e.g. as a consequence of redenomination). I suppose to add the year of introduction to the name in this case, e.g. Banknotes of the Romanian Leu (2005), Paper money of the Romanian leu (1952) or Paper money of the Czechoslovak koruna (1953), Paper money of the Czechoslovak koruna (1945), Paper money of the Czechoslovak koruna (1919). Please tell me your ideas here. TaTimur lenk 15:27, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

By the way, another reason to use "paper money": the name of the most widely accepted reference for banknote collectors is the Standard Catalog of World Paper Money by Albert Pick. Naturally it includes polymer notes as well.Timur lenk 12:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Answered you on my talkpage Timur lenk 19:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

$20 bill entry

My removal of the "trail of tears" reference is due to the fact that its inclusion represents idle speculation and bias of a small segment of the US population. The $20 bill entry should discuss the history of the bill, not Jackson's conduct during his presidency. Now if you will please oblige me in the removal of bias from the $20 bill article. Just because something has a reference online does not confer undeniable legitimacy. florfina

Georgian lari

Hay mate, I dont have time so can you put this in the article? Georgia 2006 New Coin Types. Thanks and have fun. Enlil Ninlil 08:23, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Iranian rial

I sectionized the exchange rate b/c it otherwise appears attached to the section preceding it (currently "Banknotes"). This doesn't seem like good organization to me.

I agree with your movement of the image back to the infobox, though it would be good if the images were somewhat larger (like, ~200px).

If you care to reply, please do so here. Not-inline conversations are difficult for me to follow.

Thanks,  Erielhonan  10:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

PS - I see from your userboxes that you are a CMU grad. I used to work there, in the ECE department. Cool. - Erielhonan

When the template was first designed, I put a real section in it, and there was snapshots of exchange rates at some date. And then the "edit" button on the rendered section would cause the template itself to be edited inadvertently. So it was changed to "look like" a section. And recently, snapshots of rates were removed. I was in CS myself. (oh right.... my user page says that) --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 12:13, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Mistaken redirect

Your edit: it is not possible that anyone in 19th century Spain was buying theatre tickets in Brazilian reales. Since you seem to be the currency guy, perhaps you can work out what this really should be. - Jmabel | Talk 03:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Templates subst:ed

Hello, Chochcopk. I subst:ed two article templates on this talk page, because it was inappropriately causing the page to appear in the articles' categories. Hope you don't mind. By the way, have you considered creating a new archive of your talk page? - it's got pretty big! Kind regards, RobertG ♬ talk 14:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind at all. That's the right thing to do. I should have realized that myself. I was hoping that I will archive every 6 months. But the "current" block is getting exceptionally big.... But I hate to have exceptions. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 20:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

NT$1000

I was looking at sinobanknote.com. On my website jidanni.org/geo/nt1000/index.html you can see the $NT1000 banknote story. --Jidanni 2006-12-08

Hey, I know you. I cannot agree more on what you say about Hanyu Pinyin. Back to the banknote. First, in my opinion, the English translation of the currency should be "yuan". Taiwanese officials are sloppy, as they did to different pinyin systems [1]. I've seen your article on the 1000 yuan note. But your images do not seem to have a high enough resolution. On my own image, only the outline of Mainland seem to be clearly visible. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Banknote

I think there should be an infobox for banknotes but I have no idea how to make one, could you help me? it should have dimensions, paper type, main colour, paper weight (grams per square metre) and secruity features. The Right Honourable 04:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Mr Accountable

Hi. I definitely don't understand your message. To quote: "One thing I learn from work (software development) is that copying and pasting stuff is very bad for collaborative maintenance". That makes no sense at all. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 14:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I guess I was trying to say things too quickly, so I copied and pasted stuff I previously wrote. Basically, "Central banks and currencies of ..." is a partial repetition of "List of central banks". I fail to see the purpose of this article. If the purpose is to put central bank and the currency together, "List of central banks" will do fine. And if we were to include "Central banks and currencies of ..." on every currency article as "see also", shouldn't we also include "List of central banks" on every central bank page, and "List of circulating currency" on every currency, and "List of countries" on every country? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 14:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

At any rate, I have written up to 10 central bank articles, so consider it a list of central banks. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 14:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Your contribution to individual central bank article is absolutely valuable. I'm just saying there is a better way to lay out the linkage between these articles. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 14:18, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

? Please explain. And btw, I have removed the currency symbols from the Caribbean list for visual clarity and a clean look, looks like the Africa list. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 21:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I am proposing refactoring List of central banks so that

1. List of central banks is in a table format
2. List of central banks contains currencies

just like what you have done with "Central banks and currencies of ...". And finally remove the lists by continents and links from each individual currency article. If you wish to have more exposures to the articles of central banks, then I would suggest making a navigational box that links among different central banks. If we come to a consensus, I will help you. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 23:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, adding currencies to the List of central banks doesn't sound dumb, but eliminating the lists by continent sure does! A little scary, actually! That list of central banks is huge; and you obviously haven't thought about it - why don't we just eliminate Category:Asia and Category:Europe as well? You have no idea how useful that Central banks and currencies of Africa article is. I have used it so often, I get very uneasy when you talk about getting rid of it. Don't you have perspective on other people's fields of study, such as finance, in my case? To me, this isn't about coin collecting, it's about economics. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 10:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Very well, point taken, as there a "List of Asian countries". May I suggest making both "Central banks and currencies of ..." and "List of central banks" tables with 5 columns: Country/territory, central bank/monetary authority in English, CB/MA in local language, website, currency. A small difficulty is that some of the bank article is named as English, like Central Bank of Cuba, while others are named in their local languages, like Banque Centrale des États de l'Afrique de l'Ouest (although redirects usually exist).

Another issue the the central bank infobox. There is a {{Infobox central bank}}. User:RedHotHeat developed it indepedently, but I just have a small problem with the "mint" and "printer" attribute in the infobox. I believe the production of currency is just a small part of operation of central banks. Such information is best left to the currency page. But for some reason, I got carried away, and that issue left unresolved. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 19:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Great. From my point of view, I would try not to worry about the whether the name of the article is the Spanish, English or French name of the bank; I never do; the title is often chosen to avoid confusion. Links can take a small-width column when the acronym of the bank is used, giving extra encyclopedic value in the form of the abbreviations. I think that the central bank acronyms should be there in each central article. I have never spent any time reading about mints and money printers; I suppose the people at the central bank are on the phone with them all day, and it seems deceptively important compared with the obvious tasks of setting interest rates and issuing press releases. More importantly, I don't really know HTML well enough to build this chart; the charts and diagrams I use are extant on English Wikipedia and German Wikedia (List of African stock exchanges, List of South Asian stock exchanges). I am learning as I go. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 19:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

May I ask if there are plans to create the 5-column full chart alongside the extant List of central banks? I am not sure how you feel about this; I would just build the new article and let the old one just sit there; it is a very long list and doesn't seem to be in the way...I user the large type setting on my Explorer task bar, the 3 item list as it stands now fits nicely. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 19:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The {{Infobox central bank}} looks pretty good; I am looking forward to filling it/them out when I go throught the annual reports of the central banks of all the countries I work with. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 19:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Making List of central banks a union of the "by continent" articles is my intention. I can help on HTML and wiki mark-up. But I still don't know how you feel about mint and printer? And may I ask what is your screen resolution (for table width consideration)? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 20:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that Central banks and currencies of Africa and Central banks and currencies of Central America and South America be removed from the Wikipedia? --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 20:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The main List of central banks was not and is not created from a "union" of a group of continental articles; the main list of central banks, which is ungainly and clumsy, yet complete and authoritative, is used to create spin-off lists by continent, and by dollar, pound, English-speaking states, etc. I am definitely interested in producing an Africa list (done), a Caribbean list (done), an Islamic or Middle East list (proposed) and an East Asian list (proposed). It is physically impossible to use a single 214-item list to do any work at all on the Wikipedia. Portal:Africa, Portal:India, Portal European Union; each one needs to have a nice list that they can use to get their work done. It seems bizarre to think of de-encylopediaizing an important topic; yet, that is the sense I am getting from your comments. Am I wrong?--McTrixie/Mr Accountable 20:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Navigational templates

Hi again Chochopk,
The above a neat idea; hope you approve of my tweaks to it. (Why "Root navigational templates"...?)  Thanks for your work, David Kernow (talk) 04:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Your tweaks look great. {{Monarchs of Poland}} is made from {{Navbox generic}}. Therefore, {{Navbox generic}} is the root, {{Monarchs of Poland}} is the branch. {{Navigational templates}} is a navigational box of root navigational box templates =) --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 05:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Understood; thanks for explanation (and glad you approve of tweaks!)  Yours, David (talk) 03:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Coin image box 2 singles

The background works great! I noticed that when the box is on the right, the header is centered. When the box is left though, the header is left justified. ???? Curtius 09:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... I can't really see that. May I ask what kind of browser and wikipedia "skin" are you using? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 11:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Zijie2

sry im new —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zijie2 (talk • contribs) 22:21, 14 December 2006

hyperinflation

The conflict tag indicates a major problem with an article. Something on the scale of saying A is true in one place and A is false in another. This article contains a minor mathimatical error which I do not belive is a contriction. Rather than tagging the article as contradicting its self, why don't you fix it? Carbonate 23:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

National Bank of Eritrea

Hi, the central bank of Eritrea seems to be named "National Bank of Eritrea"; some old sites I googled used "Bank of Eritrea", and that old name has been used to red-link the bank at Eritrean nakfa and Central banks and currencies of Africa. I still couldn't find a link to the bank, though. I am going to write the article using the "National" name. Have a nice day. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 16:07, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

According to the images at [2], banknotes issued as late as 2004 still bear the name "Bank of Eritrea". Until I see hard proof with National, I'm going to assume the currency is right. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 20:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I still haven't found a link to the bank's website. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 19:35, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

According to the IMF [3], the central bank is "Bank of Eritrea". I quote:

Directors expressed concern about the constraint that fiscal dominance imposes on the ability of the Bank of Eritrea to conduct monetary and exchange rate policy.

Only the central bank would conduct monetary and exchange rate policy. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but consider: "The status of the National Bank of Eritrea (NBE) as central bank was clarified by a proclamation of April 1993. " - Nations Encyclopedia; and

South African info sites Profiles and MBendi use the word "National" in the central bank's name.....Actually, I think it is possible that the situation is not perfectly clear; and may not be a priority for the Eritrean government at this time. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 15:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Central Bank navboxes

Hi, Central banks and currencies of Africa is blue-linked, and I have more or less completed the navbox "Central Banks of Africa". It is at User:Mr Accountable/African country names translated from Chinese#Central banks of Africa. This is the first time I have worked on a navbox; is it possible that you could look at it and proofread it?; it would need to be transferred to template format as well. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 18:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Note 1: Is there a font size that reads a little larger than "font=1", that is usable in a navbox? --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 18:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Note 2: One would have to put the redlink "Central banks and currencies of" for Americas, Europe, Asia, Australia; or, is that something that can be edited at template level? IADK. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 19:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I will take a look in the coming days. If I don't get back to you, please remind me. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Several things

1. You're using "User:Mr Accountable:African country names translated from Chinese" as a sandbox. That is different from "User:Mr Accountable/African country names translated from Chinese", where "African country names translated from Chinese" is a proper subpage. You're using a user page of a non-existing user (that is neither User:Mr Accountable or User:McTrixie)
2. "Central bank" should be lower case if it refers to a central bank. It should be capitalized when it's at the beginning of a sentence or it refers to the Central Bank of Somewhere.
3. the template {{·}} contains a non-breaking space before the dot. So what you need to do is something like

 [[Banque d'Algerie]]{{·}} [[Central Bank of Egypt]]

Regards, --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 09:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. As as far as central bank infoboxes are concerned, Bank of Botswana has an infobox that incorporates some of the currency infobox design elements. --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 17:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Nav boxes

Are the new currency navigation box formats your job? If so, congrats!Timur lenk 21:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Now with increasing number of navboxes, collapsible is the only way to go. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Question

With the Random portal component template I see no way to change the header option between two or more. Is there one, or would I have to go back to the other way if I want to switch back and forth? See Portal talk:Holidays where there are now two different headers(more are planned). Joe I 21:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Do you want overridable header? or overridable and randomly switching header? The first shouldn't be too hard to extend on the existing template. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

If possible I would like an autoswitching, say on such date switch to such. But, if that's not possible I guess overridable, if that's where it can be switched from one to another. Basically what I'm trying to achieve is differing color schemes for the corresponding time of year. Joe I 22:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

It is possible. But it seems like an option that is used by Portal:Holidays only. Some other portal, say a topic of election, would have a period of x years instead of 1. There are several options

1. For each different time-based switching spec, have a separate template. Codes are copied and it's difficult to maintain consistency. Someone is bound to change 1 template and not the others
2. Have one template that has completely ugly code that nobody can read nor maintain
3. Simple overriable header, with manual effort to switch
4. Do #1, but keep it quite. There would be only two templates that would require sync'ing.

--ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, considering how uncodeified I am, #3 sounds the simplest. I think I can live with the little bit of time it'll take to switch em out. Joe I 22:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Just checking

Re central bank in Philippine Tarsier - it actually refers to the Central Bank of the Philippines. If so, wouldn't that be proper noun now?--Pinay06 (Talk•Email) 05:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Very well. Updated. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 05:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Okey. Thanks. --Pinay06 (Talk•Email) 05:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Burma/Myanmar

Hi! Please join us! Chris 18:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the gesture. Right now, my duty lies in the numismatic project and template development. If you need help on navigational box or infobox for Burma/Myanmar, just leave me a message. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 20:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Infobox-currency

Hey ChochoPK, I have two questions.

• Is it possible to make the background color black for the coin and banknote images in the infobox?
• Are you considering to change the infoboxes to collapsible format? Sometimes they take too much place, but the info included is very useful if you need quick source.

Seasons greetings - Timur lenk 17:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

It is certainly possible to change the background to black. Which currency do you have in mind? In fact, I'm working on infobox style unification. The primary purpose is to reduce the code clutter and bring consistency with {{Infobox Country or territory}}. Once Infobox Currency is done, I'll move on to merging redundant numismatic infoboxes, and {{Infobox central bank}}. You are welcome to watch/edit User:Chochopk/Template sandbox 1 and User:Chochopk/Template sandbox 2. What if only one image has black background? I'm not sure how to make infobox collapsible... And happy holidays to you too! --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 01:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

OK... image_background{1|2} parameter added. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

It works perfectly, thx for your assistance :) Tell me if you like it that way or not. I would imagine the collapsible infobox that you can see the names and the images as default and all the other info if opened. Timur lenk 13:30, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

The image on banknote is much clearer. But it doesn't match the overall infobox color scheme. But I don't feel strongly either way. I will try collapsible if I can. But I must move on to merging duplicate numismatic templates now. =) --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 13:37, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Notes => Remarks

I changed the outlay of inscription explanations in the Hungarian forint coins article. Please tell me your though then I turn the others to this format. Timur lenk 18:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I made some changed to Hungarian forint coins, as well as Russian ruble, New Taiwan dollar, and Nicaraguan córdoba. I changed [[Hungarian_forint_coins#Remarks|1]] to [[#Remarks|1]] so that the link works on edit preview. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 01:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Great, now I will follow this style in the future! Timur lenk 12:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

assessment

Sorry I've been messing up the importance. I thought it had been decided that all currency articles should be top. I see that I was mistaken. It was recommended that circulating currencies be at least high. I actually agree with your changes, and will assess future articles accordingly. Ingrid 04:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

No worries. =) --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Central banks

Hey, I see that you also contribute to - besides many others - national bank articles. Some articles have the bank's name in English (Hungarian National Bank) others in the Native language (Da Afghanistan bank etc) Is their a policy or the article titles were choosen accidentally?Timur lenk 10:29, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

It happens to be random. There is no coordinating effort as far as I know. I would really like to stay out of this instance of naming scheme discussion. I'll focus on template development. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:40, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: $x and $x bill

Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't realise that until I got to $2, where I figured that in other cases it was arbitrary; for this case it was not. Now, however, I figure that the place for all those articles is at $x, not at $x bill.

The general convention for narrower topics that are fully covered by more general articles is to redirect to the more general article. Therefore, I now believe that all articles in the form $x bill should redirect to $x.

With respect to the disambiguation page guidelines, I couldn't figure out if they were meant to be articles or disambiguation pages. If they are disambiguation pages then the disambiguation page guidelines reply and I stand by the reformat. If they are articles, then of course I will support a revert and leave the article alone, provided that the {{disambig}} template is removed.

My personal view is that they should be pure disambiguation pages with links to all articles covering that bill in its respective currency, but if full articles are preferred then of course I will stick with that.

Please reply soon to User talk:Neonumbers (before reverting any further, if you are doing that; otherwise as soon as possible). Neonumbers 06:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I see your concerns. I deliberately left the {{dollar}} and {{peso}} templates on the page so that it would not be a truly exclusive list, though as you point out that might not be clear enough.

The key now, then, is to devise a disambiguation page that effectively and quickly disambiguates, without implying an exclusiveness. Like all manual of styles, the disambiguation manual is not intended to be concrete; rather, it is to be approached with some elasticity, and I don't intend to apply the manual as rock-hard laws.

The principle behind the manual is that consistency, simplicity (minimal text), and intuitive structure means that users spend less time searching for what they want on a disambiguation page; that is, they can find their desired target in an instant. For this reason, I believe that the text presented in the former version was unnecessary, or at least not all of it. However, given the nature of the page, namely, that not all such articles are full articles, I agree with you that some clarification will be needed.

I'll start reversing the redirects I made so that $x bill points at $x, and then I'll start looking at your /Note subpage and some of the currency articles to try and figure out a way that both is clear and uses minimal text. I appreciate your expertise in the area of currency. Cheers, Neonumbers 06:55, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Argh! Let me apologise for not thinking the redirects through properly. I don't have admin rights, so I'm debating with myself over how best to do this, i.e. whether to cut-and-paste (which has effectively the same result as before, in reverse) or whether to call an admin. What do you think? Just drop a note on my talk page, I'll sort it out (unless you have time and you want to, but I sort of feel like I'm responsible for performing these next moves). Neonumbers 07:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at a possible version at my sandbox, User:Neonumbers/Sandbox, and tell me what you think.

I stole your table and did some other currencies, namely, those listed in the dollar sign article; they're at User:Neonumbers/Currency.

I haven't gone through currencies to see which ones actually have pages on individual notes. (I picked up at least one that wasn't Australia, Canada or the United States; can't remember what it was.)

Tell me what you think. Cheers, Neonumbers 11:57, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't move the Hong Kong articles! Or at least, I didn't intend to. I created new pages with different names and redirected them to the current ones. I wouldn't dare move one of those articles — there's an inconsistency and an associated WikiProject, so I figured there was a good chance it was under discussion. I hoped that the redirects would provide a temporary resting place for the meantime, until a decision was made. But not move, goodness, wouldn't move those ones if I was dared to... Yes, I did want consistency—but for the disambiguation pages, not the articles themselves.

It accept won't be easy to maintain, but it'll be much, much easier to navigate as a reader. The two navboxes cluttered things far more than they need to—not because of the navboxes themselves, but because they weren't designed for disambiguation purposes. The three-line description definitely isn't necessary — descriptions on a disambiguation page are written with the assumption that the user knows a fair amount about the subject he is looking for. Disambiguation pages do not teach. They push people along to somewhere else.

If a "trap" to allow for human error is needed, then a link to one appropriate article in a "See also" level-2 section would be tolerable. I used commenting-out rather than deletion so that it is clear which ones are and aren't meant to be there, and entries can be added and removed quickly if necessary. I hoped that User:Neonumbers/Currency would provide a central place keep track of denominations. By the way, please feel free to edit that subpage of mine (for e.g. accuracy or updating), as if it were everyone's (not mine), whenever you want (this goes for anyone).

An alternative would be to create a template with all real and current currencies on it in a bullet-point form, though this would have the obvious disadvantage of irrelevant entries not being removable. However, it would provide an equivalent, but more appropriate to disambiguation, solution to the dollar and peso templates (as well as including other two or three currencies). I feel that the minimalness and simplicity of the disambiguation page are more important than its ease of maintenance, though of course a solution that gets us both is always the best way (and I believe it is possible, somehow). Neonumbers 12:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Name

Ok your name is driving me crazy, what does it mean, i am curious. Enlil Ninlil 07:02, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought 粵語 is one of your native languages? It means 球球PK (as my signature). --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No cantonese is my second langusge, english is my native language, but I dont know everything in cantonese yet. Also I can speak it but not read chinese. Enlil Ninlil 07:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

球 means ball. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

European union emu map en

Hallo, thank you for your information, but I work already at it, to update the map. I hope that I'm finished before 31 December. regards -- San Jose 14:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

no <br>

Sorry, that's the webmaster in me. I see someone has been fixing all my tables too. I'm learning though.  :-) Bobby ^{I'm Here, Are You There?} 15:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. There's not hard rule about <br>. I just feel that it should be avoided when there's an easy alternative. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 00:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)