Talk:Chinotto

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[edit] Comment moved to talk page

Whilst agreeing with the majority of the article, I must refute the reassurgance of Chinotto. I returned from Rome where I found it difficult to obtain in bars & restaurants.

Ian c McGlennon —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.100.250.226 (talk • contribs) 18:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Umm, try any supermarket.  ProhibitOnions  (T) 13:17, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Pronunciation

I dissagree with the pronouncitation guide, because it is wrong. I cannot read the phonetic, so I cannot tell you about that.

A better pronounciation would be: kee-NOTT(as in "nott"ingham)-aw (short O, "aw" as in claw).

Maybe it cannot be properly described in English, and the guide should be removed altogether. --Edward


It probably can't be described exactly in English, but that doesn't mean we can't give some idea. In any case I certainly don't recognize the pronunciation you're giving. I don't know whether we disagree about the Italian or the English; you haven't specified where you're from. --Trovatore 17:30, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Let me explain what I was trying to get across: The first o in chinotto is an o aperta, written ò when a distinction needs to be made, whereas the second is an o chiusa, written ó. In my dialect of American English, distinguishing between "not" and "naught", kee-NAUGHT-toe renders this fairly well.
Using the first vowel from "Nottingham" seems completely wrong to me, but for me the first vowel of "Nottingham" is the same as the first vowel in "father". If you're English, you may pronounce "toe" as /tEU/ (I'm rendering this in Kirshenbaum), and certainly that is wrong for the o chiusa, but I can't imagine that "claw" is better. I don't know if there even is an o chiusa sound in UK English. --Trovatore 18:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Now, I'm from Favignana, first generation, and I always pronounced it key-no-toe, hope that helps. CrimsonKing

Where is your English from? Do you agree that the first o is open and the second one is closed? --Trovatore 06:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


Garzanti agrees with me that the first o is open – see http://www.garzantilinguistica.it . (Requires free registration.) --Trovatore 06:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree that the distinction is hard to express in English, and believe Trovatore's explanation is a bit closer. Perhaps if you transcribed it "keen-OUGHT-toe" that would help. Nandesuka 13:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
That is actually one of the things I tried, but it occurred to me that the "n" really ought to go with the second syllable. --Trovatore 06:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I am Italian/English and so am in a good position to comment on the pronounciation ;) My English could broadly be classified as "Recieved Pronounciation", which hopefully is our base. OUGHT is definitely an improvement, but when I read it to myself, I still don't like the stuttered/repeated "t", furthermore, the "toe" sound is not right for me. Perhaps we should have a dicussion on Skype - it would made this easier. Is anyone interested? Edwardando 10:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to clear up any issues about the pronounciation of "Toe" (I think this may be our problem): Toe is pronounced in an almost undistinguishable way from "Tow" (as in to tow a trailer). Edwardando 12:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, so I certainly don't agree that RP is the base. I also pronounce "toe" and "tow" as homonyms, but I think we probably don't agree on the pronunciation of "tow", so that doesn't help much. I pronounce them both as /toU/ in the Kirshenbaum ASCII rendering of IPA; my guess is that you pronounce them /tEU/. The last syllable of chinotto should be /to/ without the /U/; /toU/ is the closest I think it's possible to get in the American Midlands dialect of English (what counts as "TV English" in the United States, and what I would take as "the base" if we were to have one). --Trovatore 17:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I repeat, I have no understanding of Kirschenbaum (or ny other) phonetics. I can read the rough pronounciation guide; and I know that it does not correspond to the Italian pronounciation of Chinotto, and so is misleading readers about the pronounciation. Perhaps you should just remove the "Roughly" seeing as it is proving impossible to roughly describe this word. Perhaps you could find an Italian speaker to say the word for you. I suggest a voice conversation would be a good way to proceed.Edwardando 18:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I know how to pronounce chinotto. I spent a year in Italy. The pronunciation guide is accurate -- for Americans. --Trovatore 18:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
What about adding an .ogg file with the right pronunciation? I'm Italian, I could do it, but I don't know how to add it. Gspinoza 13.38 6 mar 2007 CET
Do you know how to create it? If so, adding it is easy -- just click on the "Upload file" link in the toolbox, then add a link to it in the article just the way you'd add an image. As to how to make OGG files, I never really learned, but a quick Google search should turn something up. --Trovatore 08:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok thanks Trovatore, I think I know how to make it. As soon as I get a mike I'll record the file and then add it to the page. --Gspinoza 08:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

Merger with the tree seems like a no-brainer to me. FlagSteward (talk) 21:06, 5 May 2008 (UTC)