Talk:Chinese kinship

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Contents 1 Pinyin 2 Paternal and Maternal Incompletion 3 When to put "外" 4 Nature of article 5 Good article 6 Extedned Family in the future 7 Ego

[edit] Pinyin

very informative but can someone add pinyin? its only there for the first two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.174.180.2 (talk • contribs) 2006-08-16 15:02:07

Looks like we are not going to include pronunciation for any of the terms. Way too many regional dialects and variants to cover. Besides, this is not a dictionary. --Kvasir 20:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paternal and Maternal Incompletion

The "extended family" section is very incomplete. The grandaunt/granduncle only includes the paternal grandfather's siblings. Surely maternal grandaunts and maternal granduncles gain some recognition! Also, the first cousin, once removed section is either incomplete of lacking details. There is no information on the the nieces or nephews of grandmothers. I would also appreciate it if you distinguished between the great-grandparents. Does paternal great-grandparent mean only father's father's parent or any grandparent of one's father. I would appreciate, in general if this webpage would not only focus on parental relatives but also maternal relatives in terms of when the relation traces through a female relation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daniel Hu (talk • contribs) 21:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Maternal grandaunts and maternal granduncles ARE in the table. They are listed together with paternal ones. In the table they are included with "(maternal)" to save space. As you can imagine the table would be twice as long. It makes sense to include them together because there is no significant different in the terminology in Chinese either. You are correct in that the larger extended family section is incomplete such as in the area of second cousins and third cousins. I have already allocated section title for that.

I have just determined how extend this list of relative is going to be. I believe that this article should include all relations listed under the traditions of "five degrees of mourning attire" (五服). Originally I wanted to list all relations under the definition of "nine grades of relations" (九族), but it seems the definition of which nine is debatable and possibly arbitrary. The ones that are currently missing definitely fall within the definition of 五服. In answer to your suggestion. It would be possible to include some common maternal and in-law relations that are not under the definition 五服. --Kvasir 00:00, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] When to put "外"

There is some question with the character "外". When involving with extended family members, usually, only the character "外" is added to distinguish between paternal and maternal. However, there is question whether you add "外" when dealing with the mother's side of the family or with any relative that does not share a the same surname as your own. For example: would "paternal great-grandfather" mean either grandfather of one's father (father's side) or just one's father's father's father (common surname)? Does the word "外" work the same way as the word "堂" (which is used ONLY with first cousins of a COMMON SURNAME.

Sorry, is this a question in general or how "外" is defined in the article? If I understand your question correctly: for example, I would refer to my father's maternal grandfather 外曾祖父. Even though he is from the father's side he is still a maternal great-grandfather and theoretically has a different surname. In other words, there is only one paternal great-grandfather, that is, the paternal grandfather of one's father. There are three maternal great-grandfathers. One of which is father's maternal grandfather, the other are mother's paternal and maternal grandfathers. Etymologically 外 means outside of one's own clan; "堂" means within the same clan. --Kvasir 01:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nature of article

Sorry, I am getting confused of the nature with the charts in this article. The information displayed in the charts is probably the most detailed information about chinese relationship terms that can be found. It has been stated that this is not a dictionary, therefore, are the charts merely used to show an example of the complexity of Chinese kinship?

Good question. Seeing as there has not been much of Chinese kinship information available in English, I thought it's a good idea to compile a list of relations considered as "close kins" according to Chinese traditions. Through this list one would get the idea of complexity of the system and an indication of the agnatic patrilineal tradition of Chinese culture. As you can see the list is still incomplete and there needs to be a few more paragraphs on topics such as the idea of heir-apparent and polygamy. --Kvasir 03:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I changed the charts into ones that started out hidden. It made the layout somewhat different but I think less overwhelming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicknchops (talk • contribs) 04:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the collapsable tables. --Kvasir 07:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article

Nicely done. Thanks to everyone who wrote it. Kla'quot 05:28, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Seconded - I haven't seen anything remotely like this anywhere. Ideally, there'd be a graphic with a bunch of the closest relatives on it, but I haven't seen one anywhere on the net, let alone GFDL licensed. Steewi 04:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah i haven't found any wikipedia photos of a chinese family portrait. But certainly i would like to see some graphic incorporated in the article. --Kvasir 07:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extedned Family in the future

Under the culture section near the beginning it says "In Chinese culture where the extended family is still valued, kinship terms are ensured to survive well into current usage." Later on however under the demographics section it is said "With modern Chinese governments advocating for smaller families through family planning campaigns and policy-making, large extended family may be a thing of the past." Where do we see the chinese family going? If a problem at all, it's very small. That or I'm thinking too much

I do see problem with the wording there. The article isn't saying there is a problem with smaller families. It's just saying there are going to be fewer large Chinese families within China. --Kvasir 07:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ego

what is ego? it is used often in this article.

Ego represents the self (i.e. you). You replace ego with the person whose relative you are talking about. It's standard genealogical and anthropological terminology (it comes from Latin ego, which means 'I'). Steewi 04:09, 7 November 2007 (UTC)