Talk:Chinese astrology

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[edit] All the characters are incorrect.

I have checked a few of the subheadings (year of the dragon, rat, sheep, etc.) and *all* of the chinese characters shown are incorrect. I have tried to provide links to a few wiktionary entries of the correct characters, but I can't figure out how to do it and I don't have the time.

Can someone please fix this error or help me? It's embarrassing for wikipedia to be so wrong for so long. These character changes were made (in some cases) over a year ago.Lesotho 03:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Please. Again. All of the non-elemental characters in this article as well are wrong (ox, sheep, rat, etc.). Please change them. I will help, if need be. Lesotho 11:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you just change them yourself? — Sam 00:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Sam, that's a "helpful" resolution. Clearly, it's because I cannot. I can find the appropriate characters in wiktionary, but I can't figure out how to input characters directly. Again, any help is appreciated.Lesotho 01:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean to be condescending; I apologize. I just assumed if you had the knowledge of the characters to know they were incorrect then you knew enough to fix them. How about we move them here until someone is able to make the corrections? — Sam 01:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Mutual online misunderstanding...now there's a first :P

Again, these changes need to be propagated through all the individual pages as well, not just on this main page. These wiktionary entries are correct and provide the Kangxi radical numbers...I just don't know how to input that. Anyone please help!

Here goes:

Mouse/Rat should be shu3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%BC%A0

Ox should be niu2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%89%9B

Tiger should be hu3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%99%8E

Rabbit should be tu4: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%94

Dragon should be long2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%BE%8D

although, the simplified character is often used as well (it's the first alternate shown on that link)

Snake should be she2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%9B%87

Horse should be ma3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%A9%AC

Sheep should be yang2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%BE%8A

Monkey should be hou2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%8C%B4

Rooster should be ji1: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%B8%A1

Dog should be gou3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%8B%97

Pig should be zhu1: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%8C%AA

Actually, I noticed that the elements in the table are wrong too, but (miraculously?) they are actually correct on the individual pages. I will go after that later.

Lesotho 02:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you not just copy and paste? On my system it copies and pastes the characters into the article with no issue. — Sam 02:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I am removing the characters and moving the table and characters here until they can be corrected.

Maybe check this link for more info: http://www.thailex.info/THAILEX/THAILEXENG/LEXICON/Chinese%20zodiac%20chronology%20table.htm

If want can add as external, link up-to-you.

	1924 - 1983	Heavenly stem	Earthly branch	1984 - 2043
	Year	(Elements)	(Animals)	Year
1	Feb 05 1924 - Jan 23 1925	甲 Yang Wood	子 Rat	Feb 02 1984 - Feb 19 1985
2	Jan 24 1925 - Feb 11 1926	乙 Yin Wood	丑 Ox	Feb 20 1985 - Feb 08 1986
3	Feb 12 1926 - Feb 01 1927	丙 Yang Fire	寅 Tiger	Feb 09 1986 - Jan 28 1987
4	Feb 02 1927 - Jan 21 1928	丁 Yin Fire	卯 Rabbit	Jan 29 1987 - Feb 16 1988
5	Jan 22 1928 - Feb 08 1929	戊 Yang Earth	辰 Dragon	Feb 17 1988 - Feb 05 1989
6	Feb 09 1929 - Jan 28 1930	己 Yin Earth	巳 Snake	Feb 06 1989 - Jan 25 1990
7	Jan 29 1930 - Feb 16 1931	庚 Yang Metal	午 Horse	Jan 26 1990 - Feb 13 1991
8	Feb 17 1931 - Feb 05 1932	辛 Yin Metal	未 Sheep	Feb 14 1991 - Feb 02 1992
9	Feb 06 1932 - Jan 24 1933	壬 Yang Water	申 Monkey	Feb 03 1992 - Jan 21 1993
10	Jan 25 1933 - Feb 13 1934	癸 Yin Water	酉 Rooster	Jan 22 1993 - Feb 09 1994
11	Feb 14 1934 - Feb 02 1935	甲 Yang Wood	戌 Dog	Feb 10 1994 - Jan 30 1995
12	Feb 03 1935 - Jan 23 1936	乙 Yin Wood	亥 Pig	Jan 31 1995 - Feb 18 1996
13	Jan 24 1936 - Feb 10 1937	丙 Yang Fire	子 Rat	Feb 19 1996 - Feb 06 1997
14	Feb 11 1937 - Jan 30 1938	丁 Yin Fire	丑 Ox	Feb 07 1997 - Jan 27 1998
15	Jan 31 1938 - Feb 18 1939	戊 Yang Earth	寅 Tiger	Jan 28 1998 - Feb 15 1999
16	Feb 19 1939 - Feb 07 1940	己 Yin Earth	卯 Rabbit	Feb 16 1999 - Feb 04 2000
17	Feb 08 1940 - Jan 26 1941	庚 Yang Metal	辰 Dragon	Feb 05 2000 - Jan 23 2001
18	Jan 27 1941 - Feb 14 1942	辛 Yin Metal	巳 Snake	Jan 24 2001 - Feb 11 2002
19	Feb 15 1942 - Feb 03 1943	壬 Yang Water	午 Horse	Feb 12 2002 - Jan 31 2003
20	Feb 04 1943 - Jan 24 1944	癸 Yin Water	未 Sheep	Feb 01 2003 - Jan 21 2004
21	Jan 25 1944 - Feb 11 1945	甲 Yang Wood	申 Monkey	Jan 22 2004 - Feb 08 2005
22	Feb 12 1945 - Feb 01 1946	乙 Yin Wood	酉 Rooster	Feb 09 2005 - Jan 28 2006
23	Feb 02 1946 - Jan 21 1947	丙 Yang Fire	戌 Dog	Jan 29 2006 - Feb 17 2007
24	Jan 22 1947 - Feb 09 1948	丁 Yin Fire	亥 Pig	Feb 18 2007 - Feb 06 2008
25	Feb 10 1948 - Jan 28 1949	戊 Yang Earth	子 Rat	Feb 07 2008 - Jan 25 2009
26	Jan 29 1949 - Feb 15 1950	己 Yin Earth	丑 Ox	Jan 26 2009 - Feb 13 2010
27	Feb 16 1950 - Feb 05 1951	庚 Yang Metal	寅 Tiger	Feb 14 2010 - Feb 02 2011
28	Feb 06 1951 - Jan 25 1952	辛 Yin Metal	卯 Rabbit	Feb 03 2011 - Jan 22 2012
29	Jan 26 1952 - Feb 13 1953	壬 Yang Water	辰 Dragon	Jan 23 2012 - Feb 09 2013
30	Feb 14 1953 - Feb 02 1954	癸 Yin Water	巳 Snake	Feb 10 2013 - Jan 30 2014
31	Feb 03 1954 - Jan 23 1955	甲 Yang Wood	午 Horse	Jan 31 2014 - Feb 18 2015
32	Jan 24 1955 - Feb 10 1956	乙 Yin Wood	未 Sheep	Feb 19 2015 - Feb 07 2016
33	Feb 11 1956 - Jan 29 1957	丙 Yang Fire	申 Monkey	Feb 08 2016 - Jan 27 2017
34	Jan 30 1957 - Feb 17 1958	丁 Yin Fire	酉 Rooster	Jan 28 2017 - Feb 18 2018
35	Feb 18 1958 - Feb 06 1959	戊 Yang Earth	戌 Dog	Feb 19 2018 - Feb 04 2019
36	Feb 07 1959 - Jan 27 1960	己 Yin Earth	亥 Pig	Feb 05 2019 - Jan 24 2020
37	Jan 28 1960 - Feb 14 1961	庚 Yang Metal	子 Rat	Jan 25 2020 - ~~ 2021
38	Feb 15 1961 - Feb 04 1962	辛 Yin Metal	丑 Ox	~~ 2021 - ~~ 2022
39	Feb 05 1962 - Jan 24 1963	壬 Yang Water	寅 Tiger	~~ 2022 - ~~ 2023
40	Jan 25 1963 - Feb 12 1964	癸 Yin Water	卯 Rabbit	~~ 2023 - ~~ 2024
41	Feb 13 1964 - Jan 31 1965	甲 Yang Wood	辰 Dragon	~~ 2024 - ~~ 2025
42	Feb 01 1965 - Jan 20 1966	乙 Yin Wood	巳 Snake	~~ 2025 - ~~ 2026
43	Jan 21 1966 - Feb 08 1967	丙 Yang Fire	午 Horse	~~ 2026 - ~~ 2027
44	Feb 09 1967 - Jan 28 1968	丁 Yin Fire	未 Sheep	~~ 2027 - ~~ 2028
45	Jan 29 1968 - Feb 15 1969	戊 Yang Earth	申 Monkey	~~ 2028 - ~~ 2029
46	Feb 16 1969 - Feb 05 1970	己 Yin Earth	酉 Rooster	~~ 2029 - ~~ 2030
47	Feb 06 1970 - Jan 25 1971	庚 Yang Metal	戌 Dog	~~ 2030 - ~~ 2031
48	Jan 26 1971 - Feb 14 1972	辛 Yin Metal	亥 Pig	~~ 2031 - ~~ 2032
49	Feb 15 1972 - Feb 02 1973	壬 Yang Water	子 Rat	~~ 2032 - ~~ 2033
50	Feb 03 1973 - Jan 23 1974	癸 Yin Water	丑 Ox	~~ 2033 - ~~ 2034
51	Jan 24 1974 - Feb 10 1975	甲 Yang Wood	寅 Tiger	~~ 2034 - ~~ 2035
52	Feb 11 1975 - Jan 30 1976	乙 Yin Wood	卯 Rabbit	~~ 2035 - ~~ 2036
53	Jan 31 1976 - Feb 17 1977	丙 Yang Fire	辰 Dragon	~~ 2036 - ~~ 2037
54	Feb 18 1977 - Feb 06 1978	丁 Yin Fire	巳 Snake	~~ 2037 - ~~ 2038
55	Feb 07 1978 - Jan 27 1979	戊 Yang Earth	午 Horse	~~ 2038 - ~~ 2039
56	Jan 28 1979 - Feb 15 1980	己 Yin Earth	未 Sheep	~~ 2039 - ~~ 2040
57	Feb 16 1980 - Feb 04 1981	庚 Yang Metal	申 Monkey	~~ 2040 - ~~ 2041
58	Feb 05 1981 - Jan 24 1982	辛 Yin Metal	酉 Rooster	~~ 2041 - ~~ 2042
59	Jan 25 1982 - Feb 12 1983	壬 Yang Water	戌 Dog	~~ 2042 - ~~ 2043
60	Feb 13 1983 - Feb 01 1984	癸 Yin Water	亥 Pig	~~ 2043 - ~~ 2044

— Sam 03:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The characters are the correct calendar symbols. See note at the beginning of the section. I am restoring the characters to the table. 63.193.118.25 11:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I understand your rationale, but I believe it is misleading. When you look at several other wikipedia pages relating to this topic, they use this as a source material and don't read past the first section (evidently). As such, they use the *astrological* denotations in lieu of the *character* designations for dog, rat, sheep, etc. and claim "it is internally consistent within Wikipedia". Would it be acceptable to put the standard mandarin character table first followed by the astrological table?Lesotho 19:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't anyone understand? Those Chinese Characters aren't incorrect! They're only used for astrology; not for normal writing!Italic text

[edit] Characters are correct

Each year, the animal is called something else. So rabbit might not be 兔子，or 甲子 next year, but it might be something else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fushy (talk • contribs) 23:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The months - the inner animals

The article states: "The 12 animals also apply to the lunar months. The month born affects a person's inner animal, as stated above. Remember, the Chinese Calendar is offset to start in the traditional February, or even in early March." But in the table that follows, it seems to be matching the animals up with solar months, and not lunar ones - after all, if they were lunar months, the dates should vary each year - in the table, the dates don't vary. Can someone clarify or fix this? Jimhoward72 19:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, the article is not clear in explaining why the Rat - the first animal, is assigned to the 11th lunar month - which is around December. Why is the Rat not assigned to the 1st lunar month - which is around February? A person reading this article for information, has difficulty figuring this out from the current article.Jimhoward72 19:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the current article is quite confusing. My daughter asked about this and when I looked it up, the chart seems to have overlapping dates? It makes no sense to me.--Jimbo Wales 02:14, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I agree the dates overlap... somebody is stupid!

[edit] Tore Calendar

3. Kuman (Imén)

This appears between the ox and tiger on the Tore calendar. What is this? It took me forever to find that the first, Saravana, is the mouse or rat, and the rest are all in order. How come nothing else ever mentions something between the ox and tiger? And what's the source on this thing anyway? I can't find a single website with this that didn't copy it from Wikipedia! 69.220.2.188 03:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

4. It's the cat or the cat's placement if it had been allowed into the calender. I don't know why it is like that here. It is a very weird way of putting it on the calender. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.86.133 (talk) 21:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comets

It mentioned in the leading paragraph that comets are used in calculating chinese horoscopes, but they aren't mentioned again in the article. Could someone explain, even as a one line answer, what the role of comets are? 137.111.219.14 23:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese agricultural calendar

What happens between jan 04 and feb 03. I noticed that in column "begin" its feb 04, and in column "end" its jan 03. So whats with people born between jan 04 and feb 03. Or they don't have a sign by Chinese agricultural calendar Requiem mn (talk) 14:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

May be its a mistake in this table. But I don't think this "agriculrual calendar" is used for determining the sign. People born before the Chinese new year, but after the gregorian new year are still considered to be born with the sign of the Chinese year that hasn't ended yet. tess (talk) 18:46, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there an authoritative source for this calendar? Is it a 30 year cycle (as it appears in the table)? What purpose does it serve in terms of astrology? -- Robocoder (t|c) 00:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cat years

According to the legend, the cat was not included in the zodiac, but due to its naturally tricky nature, it "sneaks" into the zodiac anyway; for instance, the year 1989 and 2002 (this is under the Gregorian calendar, rather than the Chinese calendar, so it is merely an example) are cat years because their number is divisible by 13. These years are also snake and horse years, respectively, so the person under this zodiac would have traits associated with both the cat and the animal they are born under. Because this is a thirteen year cycle, rather than a 12 year one, each time the cat advances by one place, going until it gets to the end of the cycle. The following years are divisible by 13 (using the Chinese calendar, ending with the divisible year at Chinese New Year): (1903-1904) - Dragon, (1916-1917) - Snake, (1929-1930) - Horse, (1942-1943) - Sheep, (1955-1956) - Monkey, (1968-1969) - Rooster, (1982-1983) - Dog, (1994-1995) - Boar, (2007-2008) - Rat, (2020-2021) - Ox, (2033-2034) - Tiger, (2046-2047) - Rabbit

I was wondering where this came from. I can't find any sources on the internet, except Wikipedia. If I'm not mistaken, it's not even on the Chinese or Japanese pages. JadziaLover 01:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't know. I've never heard of it. (I grew up in Hong Kong.) And I just removed the following ref info:

This is not part of horoscope mythology, but rather something that happens mathematically. Every 13 years, the zodiac cycle advances by one (rat to ox for instance), and the year that this includes is divisible by such under the Chinese calendar. Since, cats are widely considered unlucky creatures, and 13 is an unlucky number, this phenomenon of divisibility by 13 is referred to as a "cat year."

13 is not considered unlucky in Chinese tradition tess (talk) 18:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date

I thought 2008 is the Year of the Rat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neobattle2 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It is the year of the rat beginning on February the 7th 2008.

[edit] Pig or Boar?

Some places on the page say "Boar" and others say "Pig". I was trying to reconcile why Boar did not appear on the list of twelve. I was wondering if there was a preferred English word or if there needs to be a dual entry in the tables and lists. --DeweyQ (talk) 20:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, sheep, lamb or goat? I saw a major error where instead of any of these three, the chinese character was translated as CAT! Fixed up now. My Oxford University Press Chinese-English Dictionary (2nd ed) translates it as sheep. Lamb would be a young sheep and goat would be a related animal from mountainous areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.125.45 (talk) 13:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

For the Pig/Boar question: I've heard the sign being referred to as "Pig" more often than Boar. Which is not to say that Boar doesn't pop up - it is merely less common in usage than "Pig" when referring to the chinese zodiac sign. And for the sheep/lamb/goat: it is possible that someone somewhere may actually use it, but I have never heard "lamb" used in reference. Between goat and sheep, I have heard "sheep" more often, but the two have been used interchangeably more often than Pig/Boar. I hope this helps. Ultatri (talk) 17:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Conception chart

There's an orphaned stub about a 13th century Chinese conception chart that I think relates to this topic, but I don't know how to integrate it into this article. If you think it's appropriate to include a link to this article, then please add it (and please then delete the orphan tag from the article). Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Add the Tibetan calendar?

The Tibetan Calendar seems like another derivative, almost the same animals and the same order. I also found a source that links them, [1]

[edit] Yin Yang Element

If the year ends in 0 it is Yang Metal.
If the year ends in 1 it is Yin Metal.
If the year ends in 2 it is Yang Water.
If the year ends in 3 it is Yin Water.
If the year ends in 4 it is Yang Wood.
If the year ends in 5 it is Yin Wood.
If the year ends in 6 it is Yang Fire.
If the year ends in 7 it is Yin Fire.
If the year ends in 8 it is Yang Earth.
If the year ends in 9 it is Yin Earth.

I never heard of this as a Chinese. I was born in 1984 and I know that year (甲子) is labeled as 'Metal in the Sea' (海中金). But according to Wiki, that year is Yang Wood. Is this table really of Chinese origin. Also, I can't find it in Chinese Wikipedia.--Haofangjia (talk) 01:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)