Talk:Chinese French
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[edit] Requested move
- Chinese French → Chinese people in France
- Iraqi French → Iraqis in France
- Romanian French → Romanians in France
Existing titles are Wikipedia-only names apparently invented by analogy to "Italian American". "Fooian American" is a confusing naming convention that shouldn't be used to invent new names for non-US groups. Several reasons:
- Britain uses an opposing convention, "British Fooian"; for non-Anglosphere countries, picking one convention just confuses all the people who were expecting the other one
- Proposed titles are already widely used off Wikipedia: 1.2k GHits for "Romanians in France" [1] and 6.2k for Iraqis [2]. "Chinese in France" gets 26k GHits [3] while "Chinese people in France" is not that common, but I think it's better to put the disambiguation term "people" in there since plain old "Chinese" might refer to language, food, etc. too.
- Proposed format is already used in many existing page names about immigrant groups, e.g. Special:Prefixindex/Iraqis in, Special:Prefixindex/Chinese people in (though not so much for Romanians, see Special:Prefixindex/Romanians in)
- Existing titles are not the official names of the groups (e.g. what the government calls them, which would be in French); inventing a translation of a French official name which is not used in reliable sources would be original research
- Existing titles are not the self-identifying names of the groups (which would be in French, Arabic, Chinese, or Romanian); inventing a translation of any self-identifying name which is not used in reliable sources would be original research
- Hard to search for, lots of "Iraqi French" pages are about foreign relations, and virtually all "Romanian French" pages are about dictionaries/translation.
- Existing page titles may be unnecessarily restrictive of page content; there are plenty of immigrants or long-term foreign sojourners in France who aren't properly referred to as French, since they're not French citizens or even permanent residents, and may not consider themselves French or want to settle permanently in France. However, such people should be discussed on these pages.
Cheers, cab 04:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Survey
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was no consensus. Please keep discussing this, as there is still some discrepancy between the title and the article contents, and some good suggestions were made in the survey here. ProhibitOnions (T) 20:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with
*'''Support'''or*'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
- Oppose - Iraqis or Chinese in France may suggests tourists or businessmen from Iraq or China staying in France temporarily, not the the actual residents in France of Iraqi or Chinese heritage. See African-Americans, Polish-Americans, Cuban-Americans, French-Canadians, Chinese-Americans, Irish-Canadians, Indian-British, Italian-Brazilians, etc. greg park avenue 18:44, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- Reasoning by analogy to other names doesn't erase the fact that this name is solely made up by Wikipedians and doesn't have any usage in academic literature. Wikipedia shouldn't be making up names; it's a violation of WP:OR. Anyway, I don't see why this page shouldn't discuss temporary residents or tourists briefly, in addition to long-term residents; expatriates also form part of the same community as the long term residents, they interact with each other in mosques, churches, or similar community organisations. WP:WEIGHT dictates that we can give brief mentions of those kind of subjects, as long as it isn't given too much emphasis.cab 16:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think this name was made up, I think someone attempted to translate the name from French into English. From what I can gather, there are French and Chinese names for this immigrant group but (logically) no English equivalent. Tobias Galtieri 07:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
- Reasoning by analogy to other names doesn't erase the fact that this name is solely made up by Wikipedians and doesn't have any usage in academic literature. Wikipedia shouldn't be making up names; it's a violation of WP:OR. Anyway, I don't see why this page shouldn't discuss temporary residents or tourists briefly, in addition to long-term residents; expatriates also form part of the same community as the long term residents, they interact with each other in mosques, churches, or similar community organisations. WP:WEIGHT dictates that we can give brief mentions of those kind of subjects, as long as it isn't given too much emphasis.cab 16:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose - Per Greg park avenue. --Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor (tαlk) 21:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion
- Any additional comments:
Wouldn't something like "Ethnic Chinese in France" be the least ambiguous? "Chinese French" sounds like it could be a language or a style of cooking or something. Comparing to X-Americans or X-Canadians is bogus since neither of those are languages. But how ambiguous is "Chinese-English"?Ewlyahoocom 03:02, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
- I personally like that "Ethnic Fooians in Barland" naming scheme, but I'm also aware that there's some editors who object strenuously to it, so I didn't propose it --- see for example Talk:Japanese diaspora/Archive 1. One other naming pattern I've seen in the past was "Barlandians of Fooian descent" (e.g. Special:Prefixindex/Canadians of); however, "French people of Chinese/Iraqi descent" seems inappropriate, since most of the members of those two groups are recent immigrants who may not intend to stay in the long term, and aren't "French" in terms of citizenship, permanent residency, or even self-identification. Maybe "Chinese/Iraqi/Romanian immigration to France" or something? cab 04:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
