Talk:Chili pepper

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Contents

[edit] Chili vs non-chili peppers

It appears some people are confused because they are focusing on whether or not the plant has a hot taste. There are two main groups of capsicum plants: one have a 'hot' taste and are commonly referred to as "chili" and the other are a group of plants that are not hot to taste and include sweet peppers, bell peppers and capsicum in Australasia. The key issue here is that these are all varieties of the same plant and therefore should be included in one Wikipedia article with appropriate descriptions. The difference in taste is caused by the level of the natural chemicals in these plants that cause a burning sensation when consumed. Even sweet peppers or bell peppers have trace amounts of this chemical.

Chile spelled with an "e" is a place, not a plant.


Actually, "chile" is common amongst Spanish speakers specifically in Mexico. Chilli is used by English speakers, in Australia, India, Indonesia and Southeast Asia in general, for the pungent types whereas the mild ones are called capsicums. Chile is also included and recognized in dictionaries. User:pep589 —Preceding comment was added at 11:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Smoking of Seeds

Just roll the seeds up with tobacco in a joint. Causes Euphoria but a deep burning sensation in your lungs. Still, excellent if you want to have a laugh :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.23.202.143 (talk) 15:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Every pepper is NOT chilli

It's quite obvious that this article is US-centred, there is nowhere in Europe that the sweet peppers are called chilli. Chilli are EXCLUSIVELY the hot varieties, it took me many readings to clarify my confusion and I think I speak on behalf of all Europeans.

Certainly you jest. Why are so many people so intent to use words in the least logical manner conceivable? 82.135.82.212 23:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chilli

Who spells this word "chilli". I can't say I've ever seen it that way before in America, although I see a lot of websites spelled that way. Is this a British English spelling? Should this page just be at "chile"? Rmhermen 05:49 Aug 21, 2002 (PDT)

I've never noticed it with two Ls. Either "chili" or "chile". It is listed in the Oxford American Dictionary, though: chili, chile, chilli. (I guess in order of how common the spellings are?) --KQ

Google gives the following statistics (rounded off by me): "chili" 1.7m (world) 40k (UK) "chilli" 370k (world) 70k (UK) "chile pepper" 22k (world) 260 (UK) "chili pepper" 73k (world) 1300 (UK) "chilli pepper" 8k (world) 1200 (UK) The OED2 gives "chilli" as the main form, with "chili" and "chile" as archaic forms. All the stuff in my (British) kitchen spells it "chilli", including food imported from Thailand.

I'm not saying that I'm right and you guys are wrong. British English is clearly in the minority here. I'm just explaining why I spelled it as I did. I shall put a note in the article about the relative frequencies of the spellings. -- user:Heron

I really feel that it should be changed to "chile." While many people may use "chili" they are probably refering to powdered chiles. Chili is also the name of the American stew which is based off various mexican ones. As wikipedia is a forum that is designed to educate, I think that we should educate people to write (and say) chile. Some of this may be because I am a Californian and having been surrounded by Spanish speakers my entire life I pronounce chile and chili differently. Who cares if the more common usage is chili? That's what redirections are for. Digsdirt 23:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Capsicum anuum

How do we handle the fact that jalapenos and bell pepers are both Capsicum Annuum? No one I think would call bell peppers chiles. Rmhermen 06:45 Aug 21, 2002 (PDT)

In Latin American cooking, there's a dish called "chile relleno" (stuffed chile) which uses a chile pod that is almost the size of a bell pepper, and not appreciably hotter. It's a stretch... but...  ;) -- Tooki 21:39, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It'd make more sense to call it chili than to call it pepper. But who cares, eh? 82.135.82.212 23:06, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New or Old World

Is the statement "the plant was unknown in Asia until Europeans introduced it there"? I have a source that says it has been grown in there for "thousands of years" wich seems to predate Columbus. I have also read about seeds of Capsicum frutecens from the 15th century being found in Lund. Also some roman texts may refer to chili peppers. // Liftarn

Your source is mistaken, the entire nightshade family is native to the new world only. Mkweise 23:26, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Not so. While it's true that most economically-useful members of the Solanaceae, or nightshade family, are native to the Americas, there are some species that are not, such as: deadly nightshade, or belladona (Atropa belladonna), which is native to Europe, N Africa and W Asia; and the aubergine (Solanum melongena), which is native to southern India and Sri Lanka. Jimmy Pitt 16:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo of Haberenos

Re: the second photo - I don't think these are Haberenos. They are known as "hot peppers" and were sold at a caribbean market in London. From looking at the external link they are either Jamaican or Scotch Bonnet. Anyone could at identifying chillis? Secretlondon 22:47, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The peppers in your photo have the classic lantern shape of Habaneros, not the more bunched-up bonnet shape of Scotch bonnets. The Jamaican pepper shown in your link above looks very similar to a Habanero to me - I'd have to smell or taste a pepper to identify it beyond any doubt. Habanero peppers have a distinct citrus-like aroma that no other pepper shares. Mkweise 23:26, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
P.S. Habaneros are originally from Cuba, not Mexico. Mkweise 23:56, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter. The scotch bonnet is a cultivar of the habanero. Digsdirt 23:56, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE Spelling

Try going to BBC site [1]and typing in the various spellings into the search engine. If you were looking for a recipe with only one L or an E, you would go hungry.

That is possibly the strangest comment I've ever seen ... that'd be like saying if you used the american or english spellings in a chinese site, you would get no results. Is that really too hard to understand? BBC = BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. So tell me, what spellings will the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation use - the BRITISH spelling or the american spelling. --Daniel()Folsom T|C|U 23:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

"Chilli pepper" may be the standard British spelling now, but the word was originally "chile" (Webster's says that we got the word through Spanish), which then got corrupted to "chili" and "chilli". Secondly, the word "pepper" -- in the strictest sense -- never refers to chiles, but only to black pepper (piper nigrum) and its relatives.

Bell peppers have maintained their name, despite the fact that they're not even spicy.

In the culinary arts and botany, the capsicum pods are referred to as "chiles" to show the distinction from pepper. All the "definitive" sources of culinary knowledge (e.g. Barron's Food Lover's Companion, which is available on the web as www.epicurious.com's food dictionary; and cookbooks like the Joy of Cooking, or Mark Bittman's "How to Cook Everything") all agree that "chile" is the best spelling for the pod, and that "chili" is the usual spelling for the dish whose full Spanish name is "chile con carne".

Note also that the full OED's etymology of its entry "chilli, chilly" reports evidence of Chille, Chile, and Chiles all before the first instance of "Chilli". Clearly, the "-e" spelling predates the "-i" spelling. That said, the etymologies do seem to stem from Native Mexican "chilli", but I ask how that was determined, since Nahuatl obviously had to be romanized at some point. As I said before, we got it from Spanish "chile".

I propose (and unless someone objects within a reasonable amount of time, will also do) that the article be moved to either "Chile (food)" or "Chili", and that all references in the article of "chilli" or "chilli pepper" be standardized to "chile" or "chili". I will also add a blurb about how chiles are not peppers, a distinction held only by plants of the genus "Piper". When westerners (among others) first encountered chiles, they called them pepper because until then, black pepper had been the primary source of spiciness they'd known, so they applied it to everything spicy.

I realize that "chilli" and "chili" (with or without "pepper") may be common spellings, but:

  1. The OED does not define English -- the standard usage in relevant fields is more important
  2. There is a lot of value in promoting a spelling that results in the least ambiguity (in this case, the distinction between capsicum pods and Piper berries)
  3. We should encourage the use of the terminology used in the relevant fields: in this case, both the culinary arts and botany have de-facto standardized on "chile", and both also agree that "pepper" does not belong in the name.
  4. That said, I recognize that "chili" is by FAR the most common spelling, so if we are going to depart from the spelling closest to the word of origin, then it should be "chili", not "chilli", which is a very specific alternate spelling.

Everyone interested in the spelling debate should read http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Caps_fru.html#etym_chile

-- Tooki 21:28, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC) (P.S. I'm a linguistics and culinary arts nut, so I do have a little background!)

P.S. I also found another article (capsicum) which almost entirely overlaps in content with the chile article. Should we nix "chile/chili/chilli" altogether (aside from the blurb on spelling) and integrate the content with Capsicum and just refer to them as capsicums?

Under the section on spelling it says that 'chilli' is the original Nahuatl word. How can this be? Nahuatl didn't use the latin dictionary, so there can't be an original spelling? Ashmoo 05:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The following paragraph was in the article, but belongs here in talk (Gdr 00:58, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC))

Google test results: chili pepper, chile pepper, chilli pepper
All of those results still ignore the fact that the word "pepper" does not belong in the correct name of any capsicum pod. Yes, they are commonly referred to as "chili/le/lli peppers", but the fact remains that they are not pepper, they are chiles. Wiki should be about disseminating the best info out there, not perpetuating misinformation.
A Google test of "chiles" vs "chilies"/"chilis" vs "chillies"/"chillis" shows vastly more common usage of "chiles" than any other spelling ("chiles" has nearly three times as many hits as the second most popular spelling, "chillies").
-- tooki 08:42, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Look more carefully at those results: a very large number of them are references to people whose surname is Chiles, while almost all of the results for "chilis" are food or botanical references. JulesH 20:16, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm. I agree with you about "pepper" being inadvisable. So I removed it from everywhere except the introductory paragraph. However, you haven't convinced me about "chile" versus "chilli". "Chilli" has the advantage that it is clear how to pronounce it; it doesn't clash with the word "chile" (variant form of "child") or the country "Chile". And it's pretty popular too, if not quite as popular as "chile". Also dictionaries like the OED and Chambers prefer it. Can you say something more about the standarization you refer to above?
The page should perhaps eventually be moved to Chilli (currently a redirect) or something like Chile (capsicum) if we can agree on a spelling. Gdr 19:25, 2004 Jul 26 (UTC)
I'd be happy to add info :)
  1. In the U.S., the "chilli" spelling is plain and simply not used. "Chilli" is a Britishism, and it is not fair to use a spelling unused by most English speakers.
  2. "chile" is the most etymologically accurate spelling, and (though this is not the primary concern) converges nicely with the Spanish word for them: chile. Since Spanish is the language spoken in Mexico (the epicenter of chiles, both botanically and culinarily), there is some value in this.
  3. I don't consider the OED (or any general-purpose dictionary) to be the final word on spelling, especially when definitive works in the specialty fields (in this case, the culinary arts and botany) have standardized on another. In culinary arts, I look at Barron's Food Lover's Companion, which is available on the web as epicurious.com's food dictionary; and cookbooks like the Joy of Cooking, or Mark Bittman's "How to Cook Everything". I'm not a botanist, but I've heard multiple times that botanists refer to them as "chiles", not anything else. (FWIW, Webster's prefers "chili" and mentions "chilli" as "chiefly British".)
  4. While my preferred spelling is clearly "chile", I would be satisfied-under-objection with "chili". "Chilli" is too narrow, not used by the vast majority of English speakers.
  5. "Chile (capsicum)" or "Chile (food)" would be good names for the entry.
  6. I don't think there's any confusion with Chile (the country), and certainly not with pronunciation. I've never heard "chile" mispronounced.
The upshot is that, between the usage in the relevant disciplines, the etymology and the frequency, "chile" is the more scholarly choice -- after all, Wiki is an encyclopedia, not a comic book or blog!
I must also mention again (since nobody reacted to my previous mention of this) that there is an article, capsicum, that almost entirely overlaps with this one. We should consider folding this article into "capsicum".
-- tooki 02:16, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I disagree that "chile" is more scholarly. It has a major disadvantage that while it is etymologically closer to the origin of the word, it is hardly ever used at all in the UK, and from a brief examination of US supermarket web sites is not favoured by most US retail spice brands (Its Delish, McCormick and VONS) either, which presumably means that most Americans will be more familiar with the form they prefer ('chili', the same as is dominant in the UK). To many people, myself included, it just looks wrong (when I see it used, I tend to assume that people have got the word confused with the name of the country). I propose renaming the page to either 'Chili' or 'Chili pepper'. JulesH 20:16, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

The spelling 'chili' (Chy-Ly) is counter-intuitive to the rules governing spelling and pronunciation that are found in the english language. Then there is the country, 'Chile' (Chil-Ay). Then 'chilli' (Chil-Lee), which reflects the usage and pronunciation in spoken english. Is this the english language wiki? Alumin(i)um. Merge this article with capsicum.

In the section about the spelling of the word chile/chili, what is up with the comment about the "alternative" pronunciation of "route" being influenced by the song "Route 66"? WTF? "Route" is a French word. "OU" in French has the "oo" sound. This illustration should be deleted: it is completely fallacious, irrelevant, and provincial. It's also quite dubious that the spelling "chili pepper" has been influenced to any degree by the rock band Red Hot Chili Peppers. Is there any documentation whatsoever for that? Take it out. RevJATB 03:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. root/rout is a regional distinction in the U.S. Probably whoever included it had their first encounter with the root pronuncuiation from the TV show, but in large parts of the country (and, I suspect, other anglophonic countries) the rout pronunciation is almost unknown. Dvd Avins 03:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
  • The concept that the word "pepper" is only properly used to describe black pepper is incorrect. One of the official definitions by Webster is -

"Any plant of the genus Capsicum, and its fruit; red pepper; as, the bell pepper."

More importantly, the most commonly-used name for these guys in the English-speaking world, which is actually what we need to be concerned about according to the Wikipedia Naming Conventions when naming an article, is...

"peppers"

In fact, when you look at many of the commonly-used names that include the word "pepper", you can see that it's use in describing Capsicum is not only acceptable, it actually appears to be taking the lead over Piper! For example -

  • sweet pepper
  • hot pepper
  • chile pepper
  • anaheim pepper
  • red pepper
  • green pepper
  • bell pepper

all of which refer to capsicums.

The idea that "pepper" is not used in this specialty field is also incorrect. I took a look at the catalogs of 10 different botanical companies which carry capsicums, to see what they called them. Here is the break-down -

  1. Peppers - 5
  2. Pepper - 3
  3. Hot Peppers - 1
  4. Hot Chile Peppers - 1

Note that ALL 10 of them had Pepper(s) as part of the name they used to refer to capsicums, and NONE of them were referring to piper nigrum!

The idea that the word "peppers" is not proper for use by those specializing in capsicum culinary arts or botany is ridiculous. Such notable capsicum folks as Dave DeWitt, Jean Andrews and Amal Naj all have books about the culinary and/or botanical aspects of capsicums which not only refer to them as such, but even include the word "pepper" in the book titles!

However, on the botanical side, I can think of no better example than the name of the capsicum research institution associated with the New Mexico State University (NMSU), and run by the esteemed Dr. Paul Bosland, recognized as one of the world's leading experts on capsicums. The name of this research institution is -

"The Chile Pepper Institute"

If "Chile Pepper" is good enough for Dr. Bosland, it should be good enough for us!

Unless we are to believe that all of these world-renown experts are "perpetuating misinformation", use of the phrase "chile pepper" is both acceptable and appropriate in this article.

On the issue of re-naming the article itself, I think that either "Chile pepper" (or alternatively, "Hot pepper") would be preferable to the other two spellings. I think that we can all agree that the current spelling is the least commonly used outside of the UK; and "chili" is also commonly used to refer to other things.

Unless someone can come up with a good reason why we should use the less precise "chili", I think we need to move this to Chile Pepper. --Hotpeppers 11:48, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

My (fairly limited) understanding in the matter of "chile" and "pepper" is that it was Christopher Columbus who we have to thank (or blame) for this misnomer. Columbus was trying to find ways of justifying his expensive (and possible failure of a) voyage for Spices, when he decided to call the chile a "pepper" or in Spanish, "pimienta/pimiento" (pimentón) to help market the new spice to his sponsors and to ease the burden of returning without that which he set out for. A testament to his influence, we still make that (erroneous) connection today.Michaelyee 06:48, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

---

Chili is the best way to write it, because who really cares a single US state with its dish in the whole World context? Chile is a whole country, here in Europe it would make a great confusion if word Chile is used instead of Chili, because we _do_ have geography in our schools as mandatory subject, which means most everyone knows where Chile is and when you refer Chili as Chile the first mental impression would be country Chile. If you refer to Mexican Spanish, please understand that epicenter is actually _not_ Spanish, should be some original Indian language. --- arl 20060621

Does one need to say more than [2]? --- arl 20060622

[edit] Merge into Capsicum

There was a great deal of duplication between the capsicum and chilli pepper articles (indeed, almost every portion of the subject was touched on in both articles). So I merged the two pages at capsicum. This has the useful side-effect of avoiding the question of which spelling the article should live at. Gdr 12:43, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)

Yeah that's great, except wikipedia naming policy says the primary criterion for the name is the most common thing someone would think of when looking for the topic. Capsicum is certainly not it. So that move was ill timed (Chilli pepper is a FAC) and wikiquette suggests asking for consensus here before making a unilateral move like that is more appropriate. - Taxman 14:35, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)
You said on WP:FAC that some information was lost. What was it? The merge was quite tricky, with many piece of information appearing twice or sometimes three times. I could easily have lost something in the process. Gdr 20:47, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)
Provided that ample redirects are put in place for all the expected names, I think that capsicum is a good place for the article to live. That said, the merge needs to be done very carefully to preserve flow, uniformity, ensure no inadvertently lost info, prevent redundant or conflicting info, etc. -- tooki 19:45, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I believe I did all that, and there are plenty of redirects. Please check and correct problems. Gdr 20:33, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Wrongly Deleted Article

For the numerous reasons outlined in great detail in my posts of Sept. and Oct. of this year on the discussion page for Capsicum, I have restored this wrongly deleted article.

I will also go through the edits made subsequent to the merger and am re-applying them to both articles, in order to make sure that no changes are lost. --Hotpeppers 02:17, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Applied Latest Updates:

The following changes were made elsewhere to the contents of this article after it was deleted, and have been re-applied -

Update by Taxman on Aug 19 listed as "noted complimentary effect of a chemical on birds".

Applicable portions of update by Tooki on Aug. 26 listed as "minor cleanup".

The update by Bobierto on Sept. 5 listed as "habaneros and Scotch bonnets are the same thing!", which was based on the premise that the article was in error, was not re-applied, for the simple reason that the premise was incorrect, and applying this change would have made the article inaccurate. --Hotpeppers 05:57, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Again: why "chilli"??

Even the page itself concedes that, with or without the word pepper, the vastly more common spelling is "chile". Why is this article filed under the least common spelling? -- tooki 00:31, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm moving the article to "chile pepper" because no one seems to have answered Tooki's entirely reasonable question in over a month. Nohat 04:47, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] chile pepper and capsicum

If this article is going to talk about the fruits, and the capsicum about the plants, then this one needs to lose its sections about the species, excessive talk of capsaicin, and whatnot. --Joy [shallot] 15:03, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chile (capsicum)

King Dedede, kindly explain your reasoning for "Chile (capsicum)". --Joy [shallot] 21:11, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to move it back to chile pepper because firstly, it's most likely to be searched or linked to by that name (and by looking at what links here I can see that this is totally the case) and secondly, in the discussion above, we can see that majority says it should reside there. If soemone has issues with this then feel free to move it back but reason it first here. --Celestianpower talk 17:57, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree with this move (see above). I hope you don't mind my clarification of the lead section. Also I took out the bit about being most common in the UK. It seemed a bit over the top to me to have information about what spelling is more common in the UK before the information that this the fruit of a plant. Nohat 19:47, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moving to Chilli

Not sure why this article is under the name of a country (Chile). Should really be moved to "Chilli". Of the many countries that speak have significant numbers of English speakers:

American Samoa, Andorra, Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bermuda, Botswana, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cayman Islands, China, Cook Islands, Denmark, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Falkland Islands, Fiji, Finland, Gambia, Germany, Ghana, Gibraltar, Greece, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guam, Guyana, Honduras, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Kenya, Kiribati, South Korea, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Malawi, Malaysia (Peninsular), Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritius, Mexico, Micronesia, Montserrat, Namibia, Nauru, Netherlands Antilles, New Zealand, Nigeria, Niue, Norfolk Island, Northern Mariana Islands, Norway, Pakistan, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Pitcairn, Puerto Rico, Rwanda, Saint Helena, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Saudi Arabia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Suriname, Swaziland, Switzerland, Tanzania, Tokelau, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Turks and Caicos Islands, U.S. Virgin Islands, Uganda, UK, United Arab Emirates, USA, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Zambia, Zimbabwe

...only a few Pacific islands, the US, and Mexico use the word "chile". Additionally, the original word Nahuatl was closest to "chilli". The main argument above for keeping the article at "chile" is that it's the most common name in US cookbooks(!) - Xed 00:37, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

"Chile" is more common overall than "Chilli". Nohat 08:35, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Your evidence? - Xed 09:50, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
A Google search for "chile pepper" returns 433,000 pages. A Google search for "chilli pepper" returns only 309,000 pages. Nohat 09:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Meaning what? A Wikipedia based on how many Google search results appear would lead to an awful lot of Britney Spears articles. It couldn't claim to be an encyclopedia. The combined number of people who would spell the word "Chile" is about 200 million. "Chilli" would be used by about 300 million. And if Google is more important than actual people, then you'll be pleased to know that "Chilli" wins in a number of searches - "hot chilli" "spicy chilli" etc. - Xed 15:08, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Do you have any actual hard evidence to support your assertions about the number of people who use each form? Because it just looks like a guess to me. As for "hot chilli" and "spicy chilli" it seems obvious that those who are in the minority of users of the term to be prone to such redundancies. Nohat 17:36, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
If you really believe this page should be moved, you should make a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves and let the community discuss it rather than acting unilaterally and against previously-established consensus. Nohat 18:48, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Xed, this is the dumbest shit ever. For real, man. BLANKFAZE | (что??) 08:49, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

What is going on here?! The validity of the Google test is at WP:GT. It's pretty clear that Xed's opinion is in the minority here, or it's at least disputed who is right. Xed, stop moving this page unilaterally - Scm83x 09:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Google_test#systemic_bias - Xed 12:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


I tend to agree. To avoid all the bias from songs and groups I searched for chile capsicum on google giving 266,000, compared to chilli capsicum giving 280,000. I don't think this close result is enough ton warrant a change, but it is certainly up for discussion. When I first read "chile pepper" I did not know what it meant, and read it as rhyming with 'smile'. This spelling is virtually unknown in the UK. -- 88.105.81.183 17:40, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Australia too. Chile? That's a country. Chili? Someone left an L out of Chilli. Why oh why are we listening to Americans on spelling? ;) They can't even get that U into colour, honour or armour! :P ~~ (Berym, presently unable to sign in due to PC issues, 07/05/2007) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 121.44.36.19 (talk) 14:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

Xed, my evidence, I am a native Spanish speaker, and I can tell you for a fact that chile is commonly used in some Spanish speaking countries as well as "aji", NOT "chilli." Yours is an opinion, thus invalid. User:pep589 —Preceding comment was added at 11:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The Spanish spelling is only relevant in as much as it has affected spelling in English speaking countries (this is not the Spanish Wikipedia). It is not an opinion to state that "Chilli" is used in many English speaking countries (the split seems to be along the same lines as US English / UK English). --James (talk) 03:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Medical Usage" moved here

I have moved the following whole "Medical Usage" paragraph which was added by Aragorn2 (diff). It contains speculations, unproven hypotheses, and wrong facts. Moreover, not a single reference is given and I could not verify most claims. Cacycle 21:54, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

In the West, it was long believed that excessive consumption of hot peppers could cause stomach ulcers. This was in accordance with the hypothesis that ulcers were caused by stress, and irritation of the stomach lining.
More lately, however, studies have shown that hot chile consumption is, on the contrary, negatively correlated with the incidence of stomach ulcers. For example, this ailment is less common in southern India than in the North of the country. In the South, dishes traditionally contain more hot peppers, probably to help preserve food in the tropical climate. Another study performed on 103 Chinese patients, some of which had stomach ulcers and some which had not, showed that the ulcer-free patients, on the average, consumed hot chiles three times as often as those who had ulcers (24 vs. 8 times a month). Also, some Native American tribes have been reported to treat stomach pains (often caused by ulcers) with increasing amounts of raw, hot peppers.
The relatively recent discovery of the bacterium Helicobacter pylori offers a possible explanation for this effect: The capsaicin with its antibacterial properties could, when ingested regularily in sufficient doses, limit the population of this species (which is now suspected to be responsible for the great majority of all ulcers) in the human stomach.
While chiles as a cure for ulcers are still used only in traditional medicine, Western medicine has adopted pepper extracts containing capsaicinoids for a couple of other uses. For example, chronical pain is sometimes treated using highly concentrated oleoresin capsicum: The corresponding body part is locally anesthetized, then oleoresin capsicum is applied. As soon as the anesthesia wears off, and the patient notices a warming sensation, the oleoresin is carefully removed from the skin. After this treatment, the patient is usually pain-free for several days. (This treatment uses OC to deplete substance P and thus temporarily inhibit transmission of pain signals.)
The warming sensation and (in the mid term) pain-stilling effects of capsaicinoids are also used in heat plasters and ointments to treat muscular tensions and arthrosis. The former treatment works two-fold. First, the apparent heat directly causes the affected muscles to relax (in the same way that hot baths and sauna visits do). Second, the pain associated with tensions is, after the initial pain caused by the apparent heat, stilled, which interrupts a well-known feedback cycle (muscular pain leads to tension, which leads to more pain).
Arthrosis symptoms can be alleviated using the same preparations, however, it was even reported that local application of capsaicinoids can reduce wear of the cartilage by stimulating lubrication on the inside of the joint capsule.
All that said, it should be noted that safety precautions must be taken when handling substances high in capsaicinoids. Capsicum extracts must never be applied to open sores, mucuous membranes, or the thin sensitive skin of (for example) the scrotum and the labia. Be careful not to rub your eyes after applying capsicum creams, or handling hot chiles, unless you carefully washed your hands in the meantime. First aid procedures include carefully washing the capsaicin away with cold water and soap (capsaicinoids are hydrophobic), or, if the eyes are affected, rinsing with cold water for a prolonged period of time. In the latter case, see a doctor once the initial symptoms diminuish. An ice package may help on the way to the hospital rsp. the doctor's practice.
If very hot substances have been ingested, cool and fatty foods rsp. drinks soothe best, for example ice cream, milk (including soy milk). Avocados and guacamole, peanut butter, and, strangely enough, some foods low in fat such as cucumber are also reported to take the heat away reliably.

[edit] Cayenne: baccatum vs frutescens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayenne_pepper classifies the cayenne variety under capsicum baccatum, while

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile_pepper classifies is under capsicum frutescens. Which of these is correct?

Hello....... I'm hoping this is the proper way to answer the above query. Cayenne is neither baccatum or frutescens. It is Capsicum Annuum. The C. Baccatum are mainly the "Aji" varieties of South America, and the Frutescens varieties that are most commonly known are the Tabasco and Malagueta peppers.


note by JB: there is an inconsistency in the wiki re which species Cayenne is, viz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper

says:

Capsicum frutescens, which includes the cayenne and tabasco peppers

but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_capsicum_cultivars

says that Capsicum annuum includes cayenne.

Which is correct? I think the latter but I am no expert. In any case, someone should check and fix it, else wiki contains a glaring inconsistency.

67.142.130.45 19:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Antibacterial properties

Is there any substantiation of the claim that chili peppers have an antibacterial property? The lonely planet series of guides claims otherwise.

I removed the passage:

Capsaicin has an antibacterial effect, so food cooked with chiles keeps for longer without spoiling.

128.104.102.203 00:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Dorset Chilli - Apr 1st Joke?

As of April 2006 a report has been made of the Dorset Naga, a variety of the Naga Jolokia pepper cultivated exclusively by the Peppers by Post company in Dorset, England. They claim a lab used by the American Spice Trade Association measured their pepper at 923,000 SHU

I would take this with a pinch of salt (the reference not the chilli), as it is from the April 1. It has certainly been taken as serious by other papers, but I have not found a report before this date. -- Chris Q 12:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

After more research I now think it is a real, but yet unverified claim and not a joke -- 88.105.81.183 17:41, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
A more recent reference is in the April 2007 edition of "The Garden" (The Royal Horticultural Society's magazine) which notes the Peppers by Post people, and they says you can buy the seeds here [3]. If the RHS still thinks it is real, I tend to believe them. Patche99z 15:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move, of course. —Nightstallion (?) 08:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Chile Pepper → Chili Pepper: Chili is by far the most common spelling - see Google hits:

"chili pepper": 2,450,000
"chile pepper": 582,000
"chilli pepper": 392,000

— SteveRwanda 14:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Support I had not even come across the spelling "chile pepper", and thought it would rhyme with smile. I would also support chilli pepper. -- Chris Q
  • Spport i.e. "Chili" On overwhelming usage grounds - origin of word is fine but this language thing is dynamic albeit needing some basis. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 16:00, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - would actually prefer chilli pepper too, as prior to today I had never heard of chile or chili, but it does seem from the hits above that the single L form takes precedence. — SteveRwanda 16:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support to either option. David Kernow 18:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong support not necessarily of Chile; current title is slightly confusing. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 04:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Chili pepper seems to be the most common term, and "Chile pepper" might be ambiguous in context of the nation of that name (and the peppers thereof). -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 21:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support as per [4] ~ trialsanderrors 08:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

Personally I prefer Chilli pepper -- nirvana2013 14:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Consistent Spelling?

Now that the article has been moved to "Chili Pepper", shouldn't the spelling be used consistently throughout the article text? I'd make the change myself but I thought I'd open it up for discussion first.--140.32.18.3 19:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't a good idea to move this page, as "chili" is a type of dish made from meat and beans. The peppers are called "chile." Badagnani 03:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
The reason why the dish "chili" (aka Chili con carne) is called that is because it usually incorporates "chili peppers". It's actually logical for the two to have the same spelling! And btw, real chili doesn't have beans! :) -- Bovineone 05:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Do it. Wikipedia should not belong to the US! (Incidentally, this sort of dispute is the reason I will never get a username until US people are in the minority.) By the way, my UK A-level exam paper mentioned chilli. 218.102.71.167 17:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Silly person, the US is the majority of ALL native speakers of English. That's right, America has more of them than all other countries combined. Therefore it's unlikely to ever be anything but a majority of the members of any widespread internet site. And how, by the way, does your not registering for a username help anything? --Kaz 20:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Bulldust. Give us proof that the US has more English speakers than the rest of the world combined. Anyhow... it's ENGLISH. Not Americanese ;) ~~ (Berym, presently unable to sign in due to PC issues, 07/05/2007) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 121.44.36.19 (talk) 14:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
I've nominated Category:Chile peppers to be renamed to Category:Chili peppers. You can check out the voting page here. -- Bovineone 05:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

So, your decision was based on what, the chili stew? It's called "chili" therefore it's "chili peppers." The correct English term is "chilli" not "chili." Chile is also a valid spelling, originating from Spanish, so your decision to change it was erroneous. I guess the majority rules even when it's wrong. User:pep589

[edit] Merge of Togarashi into Chili pepper

  • Oppose merge. Specific form of chile. Badagnani 03:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose merge for same reason. There is an established pattern of separate articles for each major type of chili pepper, rather than polluting this main article. -- Bovineone 05:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it a specific form of chile? From the article, it sounds like it is just the japanese word for some form that has another name in the americas. If that's the case, it would be nice if we could work out the correspondence. (I actually also thought Togarashi was a spice blend, not a pepper. Recipes often say you can substitute chili powder if you can't get it.) Lisamh 16:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heat Ranking

I've seen articles elsewhere on the 'heat ranking' of various varieties of Chilli, should there be an article on this in Wikipedia? I think so! :o) Anyone want to create one? --Gavinio 09:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

D'oh! I was thinking of the scoville scale! It's already there... Sorry about that. Gavinio

[edit] Capsicum from Capsaicin (chemical)

Chili from our daily conversation but Capsicum from Capsaicin (chemical), capsaicin is: 8-methyl-N-vanillyl-6-nonenamide.

[edit] Capsicum Merge

This article and the one on Capsicum are basically the same. Theyre both about peppers. To reduce confusion in readers, the two articles should be merged. MrPMonday 21:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, because that article is about a genus of plants, while this one is about the peppers, themselves. The two do mostly overlap, but with important differences in focus and intention. A better solution would be to focus the Capsicum article more on the science and genus-like information, and persistently refer the user to THIS article regarding detailed regular-guy, food/decoration info about the peppers.--Kaz 20:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with your disagreement, for the reasons below (region specific). --Monotonehell 05:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge for several reasons.

  • There are many spellings of the word chili/chilli/chillie and only one spelling of capsicum.
  • The Capsicum family encompasses all the fruits that go by different names in different regions. - peppers, chilies, capsicums etc.
  • Several regions define a chili pepper as only the smaller fruits with 'heat'. This article is clearly about the entire family.
  • There's already been issue regarding spelling, better to locate all the info on the one "Capsicum" page and redirect all variations to that.

--Monotonehell 05:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the merge notices, as I explained at Talk:Capsicum#Merge from chilli pepper. I didn't realise there was an active discussion here, as the merge notice on that page linked to Talk:Capsicum. Apologies. The merge notice can be added back again, but I suggest:
  1. First, we could work on these articles a bit to clarify what they refer to. If they are to be separate, then it needs to be clear what they refer to, and that they are different. There should be disambiguation links where suitable. I've done a little bit on this, based on my understanding that chili pepper is the smaller hot type, and bell pepper is the larger type... I hope this is right. I'm Australian, and here chilli is the small hot one, and capsicum is what Americans call bell peppers... there's also sweet chillies and banana chillies in the shops here sometimes, which are almost as mild as bell peppers ("capsicums") but kind of pointy shaped like a chilli.
  2. Make sure the merge tags are consistent, i.e. both link to the same talk page. This probably means deciding beforehand which way the merge should go.
Personally I oppose the merge as my understanding is (as mentioned above) that chili peppers are specifically the small hot ones and capsicum is either the genus or the bell pepper. Of course, if they both end up referring to the whole genus, they should be merged; this should be at capsicum, as this is a universally accepted term for the whole genus, unlike chili pepper. --Singkong2005 talk 02:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Species and cultivars" error.......

Under the above heading, Cayenne peppers are incorrectly listed under Capsicum Frutescens. It is in fact Capsicum Annuum. The only relatively common Frutescens varieties are the Tabasco and Malagueta peppers.64.12.116.199 13:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the correct spelling is Chile

I came across this page for the first time this evening and I am astonished to find "chile" is misspelled here as "chili." This isn't something that is open to debate or surveys or "I grew up with this spelling and I like it better therefore let's choose that." The word is "chile." "Chili" is a term made up by Americans of European descent to describe a dish usually made with beans other than pinto, to which ground dried red chile has been added along with a whole host of other ingredients that have nothing whatsoever to do with Native American cuisine. I realize another corrupt spelling -- "chilli" -- is used by European and Asians but even so, that is no reason to continue using this misspelling. Wikipedia is supposed to present a scientific approach with correct scientific terminology. "Chile" is both the correct scientific and historical term and that should be what is used here unless one is writing about "chili con carne." Please change this. BTW, I noticed when checking the links for this article that someone had wrongly attributed "chili" to PepperCenter.com. The first page at that website makes it clear that their preferred spelling is "chile." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Risssa (talk • contribs) 13:28, 23 October 2006

Actually, just because in your country its spelled that way, doesnt mean it is in all countries. 85.178.254.102 10:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure the correct spelling is "chile." Chili is the dish, chile is the pepper, chilli is a misspelling of the dish.
      • People PLEASE stop arguing over the spelling. Look in your dictionary, the accepted spelling is different across regions. chil·i, chil·e or chil·li are all acceptable. It's like how americans (incorectly lol) spell "colour" "color". Just live with it, it's one of the things that make the world interesting. "If everyone looked the same we'd get tired of looking at each other" (Groove Armada) --Monotonehell 05:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Chile is a country (look in your atlas). For the name of the vegitable please the books I've looked in says it's called "Chili". // Liftarn

Read what you typed again, "the books I've looked in" do not present a world view. Like I said above all spellings are mentioned in Dictionaries. --Monotonehell 18:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. I've not generally seen the spelling "Chili" or "Chile" in Ireland outside of Chile-con-carne. zoney ♣ talk 13:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

There is obviously no worldwide consensus on the spelling. I think the article will be most complete if we continue to acknowledge all common spellings, and provide the reasoning behind the controversies rather than appoint ourselves as arbiters for the rest of the world. Downstrike

[edit] Parasites

Interesting thought the reference (http://www.discover.com/issues/sep-00/departments/featbiology/) is, we could really do with something with a little more, er.. meat. Rich Farmbrough, 12:00 16 January 2007 (GMT).

[edit] Too Long

Ok, at some point a line needs to be drawn:

"The chili pepper, chile pepper or chilli pepper, or simply chili, chile or chilli,"

Should a line be drawn - that would cross it.--Daniel()Folsom T|C|U 23:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

There we go - great job! --Daniel()Folsom T|C|U 03:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Precolumbian chili in Europe

I have some sources for precolumbian use of chili in Europe. Should I add it under the history section? // Liftarn

If they are reliable sources, go ahead. :) --Monotonehell 18:20, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Are cookbooks reliable sources? I think it was in Eat the heat or perhaps Arctic heat. I'll have to check. It's quite interesting. A Capsicum frutescens was found in a layer from the 15th century (in Lund I think). And there was some description from ancient Greece that described pepper, but the description seemed to indicate chili rather than pepper (or it may be Piper longum (my speculation)). // Liftarn
Sounds a bit out there, how reliable are the sources? --Monotonehell 11:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
It's from the introduction of a cookbook so it's probably not the best source. I'll have to find the book to see if they are refering to another source. // Liftarn
Ok, I've checked and the original source is an article in Svensk Botanisk Tidskrift. // Liftarn
And now I've added a section on it. // Liftarn
It IS a bit out there. While the claim was actually made as recited by the cookbook, the claim itself is not accepted as credible by virtually all ethnobotanists. Tmangray 00:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not a Maldive native

Flora of Maldives page staes quite clearly that it is for plants growing as natives. This species is not native to the Maldives. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ethel Aardvark (talk • contribs) 22:57 UTC, 13 June 2007.

[edit] Merge notices

It looks like this page gets a merge notice slapped on it from time to time. I'd like to just say that there's a clear need for this article, independent of any biology/botany article about the various [List of capsicum cultivars|capsicum cultivars]. Chili peppers are a cooking ingredient and the source of various folk and modern medicines. Having an article about those broad uses and the cultural elements that have grown around them makes sense. Right now, the linkage between these articles seems to be clear and easy to navigate, so if someone wants to propose a merge, they should probably start by proposing how navigation will flow after they're done, and why the culinary/cultural elements don't merit a stand-alone article. -Harmil 15:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd agree, there's a good model in the Vitis, Vitis vinifera and Grape articles, which are all under the Plants Project - the first two are largely focussed on the botany, the latter goes into more commercial aspects. Then you have a whole series of articles devoted to the individual domesticated varieties such as Pinot Noir and Sauvignon Blanc, which are not part of the Plants Project but part of the Food and Drink Project (under the Wine sub-project in fact).
In the case of the peppers, there's a lot of little articles about individual varieties, which I suspect will never amount to much more than stubs - particularly if most of the botany is taken care of in the main Capsicum/Capsicum frutescens articles. So in this case I'm minded to be a 'lumper' rather than a 'splitter' when it comes to the individual varieties of chili - I see an article about them that is more than a simple list, with articles on individual chili varieties being splintered as necessary - I imagine something like birds-eye will already have enough to justify an article, but there seem to be a lot of stubs out there.
If you want to reduce the merge tendencies, then like the grape/V. vinifera articles, it probably needs a bit of work to push the two articles in different directions, C. frutescens on the biology, and this one on the cultural and cuisine aspects. FlagSteward 11:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Apparent Contradiction

From the page:

Chile is the American spelling (uncommon elsewhere) which refers specifically to this plant and its fruit. This orthography is common in much of the Spanish-speaking world,

These statements seem contradictory. How can it be uncommon outside America, yet common in much of the Spanish-speaking world? I suspect that the orthography statement originally applied to 'chili', rather than to 'chile', but got mis-shuffled during merging and unmerging, so I've moved it there.

I also find the use of the definite article in 'the American spelling' obnoxiously arbitrary, since many Americans refuse to spell it that way, so I've replaced it with the indefinite article. Downstrike


This is because 'America' = North America, Central America & South America. Specially to Latin Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.102.44 (talk) 03:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious Original Romanization

The original Romanization of the Náhuatl word was done by Spaniards, not Englishmen. Had they Romanized it as 'chilli', it would be pronounced as 'chiyey', instead of 'chilly'. (Has anyone heard it pronounced that way?) Further, although the web page cited here does spell the word as 'chilli', it doesn't seem to make any assertion about the original Romanization. Downstrike

double ll was not pronounced as y in 15th century spanish - it was pronounced as ly as it is today in castile. But the double ll in nahuatl words reflect and actual double l sound - because nahuatl differ from spanish in distinguisging single l's from double l's. The spanish monks who alphabetisised nahuatl realised that this was different from spanish and the most observant of them did write it chilli and pronounce it as a double ll. Whereas laymen spaniards wrote it with a single l and pronounced it with a single l. This is the origin of the two different orthographies chilli/chili.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Sport pepper" redirect

"Sport pepper" redirects to this page, but I believe it should redirect to "Serrano pepper" instead based on this page:

http://www.hotdogchicagostyle.com/faq.php 12.48.196.9 (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The "Name in other languages" section - Proposed deletion

Having added to this section I wonder whether its is justified, you could add this to many wikipedia entries. The article already has the scientific name and the names used in English-speaking countries. I propose that this section be deleted —Preceding unsigned comment added by Q Chris (talk • contribs) 10:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I second its deletion. Translations belong in dictionaries not in enccyclopedia articles. And it is a completely random sample of languages - and the list can never be considered complete. I delete it right away.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guajillo article needed

The guajillo chile is one of the most important in Mexican cuisine--an article about this chile is needed immediately. Badagnani (talk) 23:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. Badagnani (talk) 03:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The name 'chili' should be removed

Chile is a native fruit to the Americas. Chili, or Chilli is a dish made often using chiles. Culinary articles should use these names. If we are discussing the plant, chile is the correct word to use. To see the main article using the chili spelling is quite amusing. Additionally, chile is referenced here as being used as a spice to a dish. It should be noted that Mexican and Southwestern American cuisine uses chile as a main ingredient.Jsderwin (talk) 01:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

It's hard for me to believe that people actually support a vote to set the nomenclature for the word chile. There is no doubt the word is chile. To use google for statistics is wrong. If you put the words "Bigfoot" and "Rabbit" together you will get about 110,000 results. Of course there is no such thing. If you put the words "chile" and "Chilli" together you get 73,500,000 results. Jsderwin (talk) 02:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The article was formerly titled "chile," until it was moved a few months ago to "chili." Badagnani (talk) 05:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
That was quite pedantic of you Jsderwin, but you do have a point there. "Chili" is the dish using the plant called "Chile" is what I think you (eventually) are stating, if it matters. Bugguyak (talk) 13:50, 10 May 2008 (UTC)