Talk:Chilean Spanish

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[edit] Cleanup

I'm not sure what happened to the talk page. I will say this. I just glanced briefly at the page, and as a professional linguist, I can say it confidently. The page is rather messy and does not conform to Wikipedia standards. I am not an expert in the area of Latin American Spanish, but I'll try to point a Chilean language scholar I know in the direction of the page, and see if he wants to fix it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mnewmanqc (talk • contribs) 22:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

In addition, as a Chilean that knows very well how we talk, the page that was previously here was a better sample of Chilean Spanish, what whas wrong with that one? At least it was better then this one, whatever modifications have been made since the last time I was here it made it worse. I will have to agree with the other gentleman's comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.163.132 (talk • contribs) 09:43, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

This article not only needs a cleanup, but it's full of inaccuracies and straight out lies. I tried to do some minor cleaning up today, but i'm guessing it's gonna be a long job. As a chilean myself, i find this article unfit for wikipedia as it is.
What do you guys think is better: cleaning it up or deleting it? Gerardo199 03:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

As a fellow chilean, I think it's worth deleting it to start over. As you pointed out, it has more than a few lies/inaccurate information, and lacks references (citations) for its claims. guruclef 06:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm chilean too, and I know very well chilean slangs and pronunciation. This article, specially in the last part is filled with mistakes. Maybe doing a cleanup will be too hard, since this article is in bad shape and dosn't meet Wikipedia standarts... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chileanguy2 (talk • contribs) 23:25, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Besides i found some terms there should not be considered chilenismos rather standard spanish o specific denominations:
  • Carabineros is not a chilenismo (italian have Carabinieri), it the name of a one of the two police institutions. Carabineros are also called policías.
  • Vereda is a latin origined word and I presume any educated spanish speaker could understand the term (Standard Spanish is a language full of synomyns.)
I don't want to start a edition war making severe modification to the article. Even i don consider myself qualified to edit it (i'm no linguist) but as a Chilean this article makes me feel uneasy: it should put on an "intensive care" list with urgency .
baloo_rch 00:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

As a fellow chilean i must agree that this article is not a good one. For example, you can't say that Padre or Chévere are the standard spanish for Cool, being that that's used only in a few countries around the caribbean, saying that güey is the standard spanish for dude is as false, given that that's used only in mexico. The spanish page is a good one, maybe just translating it to english would be good??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.74.95.85 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Another Chilean here. I agree that the page needs major surgery. Things such as calling Chilean Spanish lowlands Spanish with similarities with say Spanish from Ecuador is so far off the mark its incredible (speaking to someone from Guayaquil bears no resemblance to Chilean Spanish). In this regard Chilean has similarities with perhaps Peru and Argentina, and perhaps even then only as far as some slang for example. As well, the north/south accent within Chile varies only very slightly, almost unnoticable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.144.169.254 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is pityful and should be cleaned and restarted. That glossary would be moved to wiktionary or only erased. All statements need references and there aren't none. The accent and lexicon varies much more than usually believed. With some practice, someone can distinguish a lot of different patterns. Moreover, in chilean territory exist three dialects: "chilean spanish", "andean spanish" and "chilote spanish" (and "patagonian spanish"?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lin linao (talk • contribs) 06:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Chilean guy here: Yea that thing's off. Seems made by like a high school kid or something, come on! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.74.102.209 (talk • contribs) 15:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I am more than mildly surprised by this article. It claims as chilenismos words and expressions which are used in other countries routinely (I am from Spain). It labels as "standard Spanish" words like "chévere", which I first heard of around four years ago wiith Ecuadorian immigration. Other words like damasco and durazno are used by my Argentinian workmates amongst themselves (the favoured words in Spain are Albaricoque and Melocotón). I am not impressed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.76.49.109 (talk • contribs) 19:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

This is slightly off the point but i am currently in chile and want to write an essay on the difference between the language here and in Spain, or maybe to compare the more offical chilean language with the slang/vernacular. can anyone help me with a good resource/books or maybe someone could clean up or re write the article?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.90.189.92 (talk • contribs) 17:58, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Having lived in Calama, Chile for 7 years i must say that although i find most of the page accurate i dont think the segment on the use of the term "huevon" is accurate at all. in my opinion huevon is not so much a serious insult as a term for a person. this shoould be changed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt.bassdude (talk • contribs) 04:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I am a Chilean teenager (living in the US), and while I did agree with some of the things on the page, I'd never heard of many. I'd love for this page to be cleaned up so I could use it to show my friends some of the interesting words we use in Chile. I'm glad so many people pay attetion to articles like this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.221.172.103 (talk • contribs) 04:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Editors and readers of this article may be interested in the request for a Wiktionary in Chilean Spanish, which is being discussed in Meta. - Regards, Evv 20:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Never mind... - Evv 21:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Start an article for the Chilean Vernacular/Variants?

can you do that, or would it be considered a "list", i think lists are, no-nos? 67.150.49.106 23:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Delete this page

How do I ask to delete this page? Baloo rch 00:54, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

You would follow the procedures at Articles for Deletion cmh 02:28, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I have not read the Spanish version of this article yet, but I volunteer to translate that and/or fix this English version as much as possible to avoid deleting it altogether. -Daniel Villalobos 14:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
A translation of the Spanish article would be much more appropriate, although an expanded section or a separate list of localised word usage (even including some pan-Latin-American words) would be appropriate still.150.203.2.85 03:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC) Will 13:00, 16 October 2006.

[edit] Disrespective?

The voseo and tuteo section has a link to disrespective, which is something so completely off topic (some rock album) that it is clear that this is not what the author originally intended. However, I do not have sufficient knowledge of Spanish to figure out what could be correct. Any ideas? --Mashford 16:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Que onda con el "bistec con bigotes"

Oye loko, no podi dejar a Chile tan mal parado po.... "Bistec con bigotes" que onda! —Preceding unsigned comment added by DjComposite (talk • contribs) 21:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Names

the article says "There are patriotic first names given to many Chileans, like Bernardo from liberator general Bernardo O'Higgins, Pablo from 1970's poet Pablo Neruda, and Patrico/Patriote (as in "Patriotic") for boys, and Patria (feminine form of Patrico), Michelle (pronounced "Mi Chile") and Chloe/Chiloe for girls" i have live 30 years in Chile and i ´m never have met someone called PATRICO or CHILOE. nor Bernardo is a common name in chile, and Pablo was common far before PAblo Neruda. Michelle doesnt sounds as "mi chile" and i have never meet a girl Patrica... who make this shit up??? quién inventa tanta weá junta!!!

Probably a Chilean... I deleted it. --Lin linao 05:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hardly a chilean...

[edit] Bananas

In reality platano and banana are two different fruits, so it would just be a common mistake to call bananas platanos, not some kind of slang. Not unlike the mistake that bandaids are bandaids (ya, in english), that's just a brand, the world would be an adhesive bandage. That's sucessful marketing for ya. --Eduardo 00:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Nope, bananas and plátanos are names for two varieties of a same plant: es:Musa x paradisiaca. The usage varies among countries, and in Chile, almost aren't sold green bananas/plátanos, called plátanos in many countries. Bye. Lin linao 17:42, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article title

To be consistent with other Spanish dialectology, shouldn't this be renamed Chilean Spanish? Like, for example, Mexican Spanish, Puerto Rican Spanish, Andalusian Spanish, Rioplatense Spanish, etc.? --Miskwito 21:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh wait...it was named that...and then CieloEstrellado moved it, in January. I can't find anywhere where Cielo discusses the move. Cielo, what were your reasons? --Miskwito 21:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Hrm, and the move made the "AFD cleanup" tag have a red link, rather than pointing to Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Chilean_Spanish. That's a rather big problem. I can't think of any reasons at all to have the page have this name rather than "Chilean Spanish", which has at least two arguments in its favor (consistency and a correct link to the AFD discussion). Plus "Chilean Spanish" follows the phrasology one would find in any academic publications on dialectology; "Spanish spoken in Chile" communicates roughly the same idea, but in a longer, more imprecise, and less standard way. Since the article was moved in the first place without discussion, I think I'm going to move it back by tomorrow if no one objects. --Miskwito 00:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree. The name "Spanish spoken in Chile" it is not only for the dialect known as "Chilean Spanish": there are speakers of español andino (Andean Spanish?) in the north of country and speakers of another dialect in Chiloe. Bye. --Lin linao 05:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Examples

I don't know if this was the intention, but the most of the examples are being treated as comments and hence ignored. Another issue, "salmón" is synonymous with "anaranjado" for many Chileans. Although it is unsourced, it is true. Jespinos 02:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I deleted many examples because they were erroneous or weren't only chilenismos. About second issue, are you sure? "salmón" isn't "orange", it is a pinkish orange or orangean pink ;). Bye. Lin linao 05:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
im pretty sure salmón is orange, my mother is from chile and always calls oranges or pumpkins salmon colored in english, somthing we argue over a lot until i learned that most chileans refer to anaranjado/orange as salmon/salmón.Cholga 04:31, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Usually this color is "salmón" and this is "naranjo". Pumpkins always are "naranjos", melons can be "salmón", oranges always are "naranjas" ;D. Lin linao 08:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

At present day, "salmón" as synonymous with "anaranjado" is not as used as it was many years ago and perhaps is an unknown issue among younger people. Whether this use is correct or not is another matter. Jespinos 22:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] gringo

Although gringo is not a chilean term, it's usage as a non-derogatory term is not shared in all of latin america. For this reason it is justified to be included in the list. --JAXHERE | Talk 16:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

As it is shown in gringo, the non-derogatory use is common in all of the Americanoriginal meaning countries. Lin linao 19:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Read the article further and you see that there is controversy over whether or not it is derogatory. My own experience, as a gringo who has traveled through most of latin america, is that I was surprized to hear it used in a complimentary fashion when arriving in South America. Also, in Chile, especially in the lakes district the term is widely used to refer to anyone who is fair skinned or even to people of German or French decent who are --to my eyes -- not that fair. This, I believe, is unique to Chile. --JAXHERE | Talk 23:05, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
In Chile, there are many senses for the word. Some are "objective" and others are xenophobous or derogatory. It is true that "gringo" can mean "blond person", but, also is "person from United States" and "non-Spanish speaker". So, Marilyn Monroe is a gringa (blonde) but Hale Berry is a gringa (U.S. citizen) too. In two cases, the word is neutral. However, if someone says "Esa película es demasiado gringa", the term is not complimentary at all. Bye. Lin linao 10:27, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Lin linao, I agree completely with what you've said, but I believe the point of this discussion is not to examine all the varieties of uses which "gringo" can be found but to determine if the word "gingo" has a frequent usage in Chile which is not universally shared by all Spanish speakers so as to justify it's inclusion in the list of Chilean terms.
Now that I look back at the article, I'm beginning to think that it should not be in this list where it is placed because that is a list of Chilean slang. "Gringo" is not slang, but it's Chilean usage is frequently non-standard Spanish. With this in mind, the question now becomes where, in this article, should it best be placed? JAXHERE | Talk 15:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

First of all, as a Chilean American, I can tell you that most Chileans do not see "white" people as soley gringo. A lot of Chileans see themselves as white too and wouldnt use gringo in a deragatory way towards people who are blonde and light skinned. It simply just means person from the US or another country. The one thing about Latin American countries like Chile, Argentina and Uruguay is that there isnt this anamosity or deragatory slang towards white people. Saying that someone is "white" in a demeaning fashion like most Central American or Carribean nations is looked down upon in Chile. This is because a big portion of Chile is white or of both Amerindian and European decent. Atleast when I visited several times, a blonde Chilean was no different from a dark haired fairly mestizo Chilean. They only used terms like huinca to acknowledge that the person has blonde hair, not to demean them, like Mexicans use the term "guerro" to almost add a demeaning tone. Granted Mapuche or significantly mestizo Chileans are slightly mistreated, they might be the source for any disdain towards whites in Chile. But thats about as much as I can think of.

[edit] Major revision

The article in its current state is miserable--entirely unsourced, full of probably original research... It's been tagged for this stuff for over a year, and the deletion debate in which it was urged "time to get working on the cleanup, guys!" was also over a year ago. I've drafted a new version of the article over at User:Miskwito/Notes, which I'd like to ask everyone to take a look at and make suggestions on. Among the changes: (1) removing unsourced statements from all the sections, including (2) scrapping most of the stuff on vocabulary and slang and examples, which appears to be mostly made up of OR, (3) then rewriting the phonology, pronoun, and vocabulary sections, and (4) citing my rewritten version with a published source (John Lipski's Latin American Spanish). If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions or comments or the like, I'd greatly appreciate it; but either way, this article needs a major revision, and needs it soon. --Miskwito 19:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

An avalaible (and reliable) source in the Internet is El dialecto más austral del español: fonética del español de Chile ("The southernmost dialect of Spanish: Phonetics of Chilean Spanish"). Bye. --Lin linao 14:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Aah, ¡una página fantástica! ¡Muchas gracias por mostrármela! --Miskwito 19:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
...hmm...pero, ¿qué fuente me hace falta para leer las transcripciones en esa página? --Miskwito 19:35, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't know, I've the same problem. The description is useful for understanding sounds that are referred here. Bye./ No lo sé, tengo el mismo problema. La descripción ayuda a entender qué sonidos se están explicando. Saludos. --Lin linao 04:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the changes propose by Miskwito. The article needs a deep cleaning. Dentren | Talk 11:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About slang

the article have (or had) a very long slang vocabulary section. I dont know if it my percepcion of Chilean Spanish but I have the feeling that most Chileans use far more slang than other Spanish speaking people. Is there any reliable source that can state that? I think the slang is an integral part of Chilean Spanish and it should obviosly be in the article, but to make a list of slang seems to me very "unscientific" unless the list is the result of a scientific research. Many contributions about slang have "sunk" the quality of the rticle instead of improving it.

Apart from that, I have heard of a long essay/work about the use of the word "huevon" made by a Gernman "philologist". If somebody could find that work it could be very useful. Dentren | Talk 11:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of vocabulary needing citation to be introduced into the article

  • Cahuín (from Mapudungun)
  • Cachai (from English)
  • Callampa (from Quechua)
  • Chacra (from Quechua)
  • Chomba (from Quechua or Aymara)
  • Guagua (from Quechua)
  • Kuchen (from German)
  • Pichintún (from Mapudungun)
  • Pitear (from Quechua)
  • Quiltro —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dentren (talk • contribs) 20:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

DRAE can be useful as a source. Jespinos (talk) 23:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chiches

Chiches and Money have not the same meaning. Chaucha is closely related to Dinero (Money) but is not a synonym for it. Another word related to Money and that bears some similarity in writing with Chiches is Chinchín (Pagar al chinchín can be translated as Pay in cash). Could somebody check the source given for clarifying this? Jespinos (talk) 23:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)