Talk:Chia Thye Poh

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 Chia Thye Poh was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: April 6, 2008
Chia Thye Poh was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: August 2, 2007
Peer review Chia Thye Poh has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
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Can anyone points me to the exact location where Chia Thye Poh was held house-arrested? Many thanks. :)

Fort Silosa, Sentosa. Western side of the island. Look for the one-room guard house.NonlisteningFriend 11:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Since 1998 he has been 'permitted' on speaking tours and to take up academic work outside Singapore

Such as through the Institute of Social Studies in the Netherlands. I have made a couple of requests to his email address today:

To : chia@iss.nl

Dear Sir,

I am desiring to develop your biographical entry at the English wikipedia

Are you able to provide a free image of yourself to fit in the biography? In addition, are you able to direct me to any information that describes the nature of your activities since 1998?

etc. ChiaThyePohExample 03:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What's happened to the poor bastard since 2000?

Got his PhD in 2006, it seems. Hasn't gone back to live in Singapore. Do you blame him?NonlisteningFriend 11:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC) What a man. Someone who teaches us all how to say 'die' to soullessness exhibited by the government of Singapore and, in courage, most unlike 99.9999% of those I've ever known to have come from that place.NonlisteningFriend 11:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This needs an image of the biographical subject. Badly. Don't think I don't realise that

Any assistance in this regard greatly appreciated.NonlisteningFriend 11:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More questions addressed the the biographical subject

I've emailed the subject with the following questions for the purpose of developing the article: 1) what's your date of birth and your religion?

2) can you refer me to some of your writings?

3) what can be said about any public speaking you've done since 1998? and in the period up to 1966?

4) at what places and in what timeframes were you detained in the period 1966-1989?

5) do you confirm that you were awarded a Masters degree in the year 2000, and a PhD last year?

6) in what periods have you resided in the Netherlands and in Singapore since 1998? Have you resided in other places?

7) is it correctly stated that your place of birth is Singapore?

8) can you provide any 'free use' images of yourself to be placed in the article & particularly something clearly showing your face?

9) what languages are you a translator for? Cantonese? Mandarin?

10) do you see any obvious errors or omissions in the article as it now stands? NonlisteningFriend 02:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A picture of the Singapore parliament building has been taken out

As it's the same building where he worked as an MP and where he led the demonstrations to before the Singapore govt cracked down on him I had it placed there as an aid to visualisation.NonlisteningFriend 04:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Fyi, the pix u use earlier refers to the New Parliament House Building built in 1999. For illustration purpose, use the pix at Old Parliament House, Singapore. If Chia's photo is still not available for Biblio tag, scanned or search online & quote "Fair Use" to meet subsequent GA requirements. Lastly, pse be civil (see remarks made above) and constructive according to the spirit and aspirations of Wikipedia & not cause offence to the SGpedians community since you have recently put up requests for article review and pictures there. -- Aldwinteo 05:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
OK handy & I'll amend my remarks with apology.NonlisteningFriend 08:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Re the face image, one was created one from a copyrighted image and placed citing a fair use rationale. It didn't last long. Fair use would suffice if this article was a review or appraisal of the image itself (see Mona Lisa). Rather, this article is a review of the life of the person depicted. In any case, I had thought the fair use rationale a defensible one. There is a four-factor balancing test which applies in Florida, USA, where the Wikipedia servers are situated.
- the nature of the use including whether it is for nonprofit educational or commercial use?
- the nature of the copyrighted work
- the amount of the portion of it used in relation to its whole
- the effect use may have on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work
NonlisteningFriend 23:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi again, I'm glad to know that u have amended the offending remarks with apologies but I wld like to give u a heads up here - if Mr Chia is reading yr current remarks on him now (see above), what are the chances that he'll be cooperative enough to offer his latest updates which u have requested from him earlier? -- Aldwinteo 11:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I think you are misunderstanding the usage of the phrase "poor bastard" above. It is being used as an expression of empathy. I sympathise with what happened to him. In his own words ("the best part of my life has gone (being confined)"). I first became aware of how he was still being persecuted for not signing his name some time in the 1990s. Being in another country, as I am, it's not as though I lifted a finger to publicise his case at the time or to set him free. I didn't write a letter. I just remembered. And I'm doing something now.NonlisteningFriend 22:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Though i'm one of those "99.9999%" mentioned above, i understand what u meant earlier. Fyi, i'm a 'product' of a Western education of Australia (theirs a mix of the US & UK education system) and am familiar with the Western ways & lifestyle having living abroad myself. Though Wikipedia is US based, there's a sizable number of non-westerners, non-native speakers coming from diverse backgrounds with their inherent cultural sensitivities. What written in words may sound different to what u say casually over a conversation that can be mitigated with body-language cues. What u r doing of late to improve & to raise the profile of his biography here is laudable despite limited up-to-date sources. I do share yr sentiments on his plight too. As there're no 'datelines' imposed by Wikipedia, there's no rush for its GA nomination. Some of my past articles i wrote on living & deceased personalities & institutions earlier took me weeks & even months (for its permission, pix, source information & research) before it was submitted to Wikipedia. Nonetheless, be patient & practise due diligence on yr subject matter. I'll advise & help along as i can. -- Aldwinteo 05:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image of Chia Thye Poh

Commons does not accept fair use images, which is why it was removed. You can try uploading on en wikipedia, but wikipedia too is moving away from fair use images and it might not last long either. Best way is to get a free use image from Chia himself. --Rifleman 82 02:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, & thank you for good work you've done combining references on this article so far. As of yet, no responses from the subject by email.NonlisteningFriend 04:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A longer-serving political prisoner

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40817F934590C768EDDAB0894D1494D81&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fP%2fPolitical%20Prisoners 41 years imprisonment in South Korea, ending 1999.NonlisteningFriend 08:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Now the subject of an article I created - Woo Yong Gak
NonlisteningFriend 11:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article nomination review

This article failed review based on the quick-fail criteria. Good article candidates cannot contain fact tags. The article needs additional referencing and references need to be properly formatted with all available information included, including retrieval dates. The issues were pointed out by the nominator which is confusing to me. I'm not sure why the article was put on the WP:GAC list to begin with, honestly. Work to improve the article based on the criteria listed at WP:WIAGA. Once these standards are met, the article may be renominated. If you disagree with this, you may seek remediation at WP:GA/R. Regards, Lara♥Love 03:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I pointed out areas where I wanted to develop the article in its nomination. I was being honest all around including my view that the article was well-written and well-referenced with the information it had at the time. As it stands, I'm waiting for some comments and reactions from the biographical subject himself who is a living person (& a free man :) ). He may also be able to come forward with a photo of himself as a free image for inclusion here.
Thank you for reviewing.
NonlisteningFriend 04:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
It occurs to me that when (and if) he does respond, the information he provides may be difficult to cite. After all, it would be just my say-so to the effect that he emailed me back confirming his birthdate was X, his religion is Y, and he received degrees Z1 and Z2 etc. I could post the correspondences up on a blog, but then blogs are derogated as WP:RS. I note that blogrefs have been excised recently and replaced with 'citation needed' tags.NonlisteningFriend 04:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
No fear, since he's currently in the academia, there must be academic journals written by him or by his peers which usually carries a short intro of the subject & the subject's academic credentials. Copies of such journals could be available online (usually in PDF format) which we are not fully aware of yet or via privileged access or even paid subscription. u can ask him to cite such sources for use as reliable references shld he respond subsequently. -- Aldwinteo 05:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blogrefs, venues for his detention

[1] This is a blog by Carl Parkes the author of "Singapore Handbook (1st edition)", published by Moon Travel Handbooks. He states that Chia was held for "22 years in Whitley Road Detention Centre". To my understanding, that place is distinct from Moon Crescent Detention Centre.

[2] This blog entry explains that from May 1970 almost all longterm political prisoners were detained in Moon Crescent - "a purpose built political wing of Changi Prison". It continues

"political detainees are frequently kept in solitary confinement for anything up to six months, either at Whitley Road Holding Centre or at other undisclosed Special Branch Holding Centres. Once a detainee is served with a detention order under Section 8 of the Internal Security Act, he is almost invariably transferred to the Moon Crescent Detention Centre.

NonlisteningFriend 08:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

From my other reading it's become clear that 'Whitley Road' and 'Moon Crescent' are distinct. He would have mainly done time at the latter, with periods in solitary at the former.NonlisteningFriend 08:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Now this source says "He spent more than 22 years in jail, mostly in solitary confinement." So it may equally be true that he was a special case who actually spent more time at the Whitley Road centre, and therefore in solitary, because of his intransigence.NonlisteningFriend 09:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the article should notate that he 'spent substantial time during the period of his incarceration in solitary confinement at the Whitley Road Detention Centre', as we could confidently conclude that. But as for providing a specific reference .. um, its by inference from a number of references exposed above - some of which are blogrefs and therefore likely to be excised.NonlisteningFriend 09:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Publication of his thesis

The publisher is 'Shaker Publishing'. See here - [3]
NonlisteningFriend 08:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Email to: knorringa@iss.nl, cc chia@iss.nl - 14 March 2008

Dear Sir,

I have been editing the English Wikipedia article on your abovenamed colleague -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chia_Thye_Poh

Having not received a response from chia@iss.nl , I am seeking to confirm the accuracy of information in the last section. Particularly,

1. Where your C.V. states that you have concluded supervision of his doctoral thesis, may we then also say that he has been conferred with a PhD by your Institute?

2. Is it an accurate statement that he is currently employed at or by the Institute on the Surinam MPA project? Prisoner Of Integrity (talk) 11:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] preliminary GA Review

  1. As noted above, a picture of the person is needed. If you get a pic directly from him, make sure it comes with an email (ideally) that gives permission for wikipedia to use it. Otherwise, try asking on picture peer review; they can sometimes find images through the LOC or something.
  2. Also to preempt the dialogue in the GAR above, information that you collect directly from Poh himself will not count as cited material, as this is original research.
  3. Several sections are either do not follow either WP:Layout and/or WP:MOS. A longer, more in-depth "early life" section is needed to bring this article up to the "broad coverage/focused" criteria. The "writing" section also needs more than just a bibliographic reference: it needs a description of the work, as well as why it's important.
  4. The succession box after "writing" is confusing and unnecessary--at first glance it appears to be related to the "writing" section, and the only info it contains can be found in the info box.
  5. Prose--one line paragraphs break the flow of the prose, are against WP:Layout, and are generally indicative of insufficient coverage of the material.
  6. Lead: try to avoiding citations in the lead; any info in the lead that would need a citation should appear (cited) in the body of the article. Moreover, the last part of the first sentence needs to be fixed; which is it? Is he the longest serving prisoner of conscience? Is he the longest serving political prisoner? As an enc. article, that sentence needs to say yes or no, not maybe.
  7. Wlink dates for date preferences.
  8. The quotes in the "sentosa" section need attribution (the name of the guy at the end of the quotation) and citation. The section, as a whole, needs more material. What is being presented right now put the burden of interpreation/analysis on the reader. Instead, it is the article that should dissect the quotation, describe the situation, present the info, etc.

Please leave a comment either here or on my talk page if you have questions. Best of luck on this article.

On Hold until 24 March 2008. If significant progress is not made by that time, the nomination may be failed without further notice.

--Malachirality (talk) 02:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC) Grateful thanks to you for these above pointers as well as for being one of the people willing to address the backlog at WP:GANFascisticUnionGlory (talk) 00:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

With regards to point 1, the GA criteria state that "The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement for Good articles". Finding a free image of Chia would be difficult, if not impossible. By the way, this nomination has been on hold for over two weeks and should be failed, as the remaining issues have not been addressed. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 16:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, unsuccessful. Unfortunately no action has been taken on this nom. Feel free to re-nominate when these issues have been addressed. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 02:28, 6 April 2008 (UTC)