Talk:Chengdu Super-10

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AVIATION This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Aviation Portal
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the quality scale.
This article is part of WikiProject China, a project to improve all China-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other China-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
More information about this article...

Contents

[edit] planned or speculated

Is this aircraft actually planned, or speculated? -- Adeptitus 18:48, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I remember reading an article about this on Sinodefense, I think its planned, but of course China is not going to release any info on it me thinks.

Come on guys! That's a MiG 1.44, not J-10. Unless a Super-10 is a MiG 1.44.

It would make sense, since the J-10 already looks very similar to the 1.44 (infact it was inspired by the 1.44 & the Eurofighter), plus MiG is helping on the project...

In the photos, it has 2 engines. That would be a heavily modfied aircraft. Hoewver it does not make sense, because China is researching on the J-12. The J-10 is meant to be a cost-effective multirole aircraft, with only one engine.--Arado 08:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

The J-12 (being made by Shenyang) is a stealth aircraft, made to compete with the F-22/F-35 and the PAK FA. This one (Super-10/J-13) is more of a upgrade to the Chengdu J-10 to compete with the Eurofighter. http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx.asp

I am a little confused. Is the Super-10 and J-13 the same project? If they are, why not merge the two articles to prevent confusion? -Heilme 02:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Yep, same, MERGE!!!! (I'm not going to do it, I'm too lazy.) 70.143.70.123 05:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photos are misleading

If you read the JDW article closely, it says the Russians are working on a TVC version of the AL-31FN for the PLAAF. However there is no indication that the new aircraft will the twin-engined. The J-10 is a single-engine fighter like the F-16, and it's logical to assume an engine upgrade simply means swapping the older engine with a newer one. To date there is no proof of a twin-engined prototype. -- Adeptitus 16:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible accidental "OR" by reporter

I have a concern regarding the attribution to ACM Ahmed of the following statement:

"He regarded the Chengdu J-10 as 'fifth generation aircraft', as the Pakistani version is set to be equipped with advanced avionics and equipment which the current version of this aircraft does not have, hinting towards the Super-10 variant of the J-10."

The source text does not supply an actual quote, but rather summarizes what Ahmed said ... that is, what the reporter thought he understood Ahmed to have said. The average reporter usually is clueless about "4th generation" vs. "5th generation" and may have assumed that what Ahmed was saying was that the JF-17 was 4th-gen and the J-10 5th-gen – based on his quoted statement, "We have plans to replace our ageing fleet with the fourth and fifth generation fighter-bomber aircraft till year 2015."

I doubt ACM Ahmed regards the J-10 – as it currently exists – to be "fifth-generation", so I would be disinclined to say so without a source providing an explicit quote to that effect. He probably was "hinting towards the Super-10", but this is speculation and we need to find a reliable source that says so. Askari Mark (Talk) 21:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree that quote is suspious. I removed that reference from the main J-10 article and just saw the same thing here. I do not know how reliable this site is, but look at: http://www.defence.pk/news/publish/Induction_of_high-tech_aircrafts_for_PAF_soon_Pakistan_20070405.php This one said "He said PAF was finalizing to purchase high-tech J-10 type aircraft from China and initially two squadrons of this fourth generation aircraft with the capability of being a four point five generation aircraft would be inducted in the PAF." Honestly, I think the entire article of Super-10 needs a re-write, assuming that it should exist in the first place. No independent source ever confirmed JDW's "Super-10" designation or the supposed upgrade. But even if that is true, the "Super-10" is still an upgrade of J-10, not the rumored twin-engined Chengdu proposal competing for Chinese next generation fighter. Although Fisher's research article is consider "legit" due to his special status in the academic and political/military circle, that is also a little outdated - a 2004 article is considered REALLY old when talking about J-10 rumors. The bottom line is that single engined J-10 upgrade (Super-10) is generally not considered a "Fifth-Generation" fighter in the class of F-22, and it should not be mixed with the rumored twin-engined future design. Ch2000 02:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the Defence.PK reference! That article’s content sounds much more in line with what I would expect from someone of AFM Ahmed’s stature and experience. You are right in that this article could use further work; however, I’m not sure there’s enough reliable information to add much more on this subject. In fact, it might be better replaced by an article on all of China’s reported 5th-gen fighter programs, which appears to amount to three – an “F-22-class” type being pursued by each of Chengdu and Shenyang, and an “F-35-class” type reportedly being developed by Chengdu.
Personally, I doubt the J-10C “Super-10” is anything more than the advanced version of the current J-10A, which it is said will have thrust-vectoring nozzles and possibly an AESA radar; it might even be the carrier version reported to be in development. In fact, in his Congressional testimony last year, Fisher himself avoided using the term “Super-10” and talked about “advanced versions” of the J-10 separately from China’s 5th-gen programs. Most sources I’ve read suggest the J-10A is equivalent in capability to the F-16C Blk. 30 (and thus a 4th-gen aircraft), which would imply that the J-10C would be 4.5-gen. This would be a sound expectation for the pace of advancement in China’s technological sophistication for indigenous development.
Given past Chinese practice, a J-series identification probably has not been assigned for any of the three fifth-gen candidates, and it is unlikely that any would be a serially improved J-10. What would more likely appear first would be “marketing names” emanating from the developing companies for these projects, and I’ve not yet come across any. As such, I’m more inclined to recommend merging this article into the existing Chengdu J-10 article. Askari Mark (Talk) 23:11, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree. A separate article for advanced version of J-10 simply does not make sense right now. Unless a lot of documented sources are available like F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, most advanced fighter versions are not separated from the main article. Even Mirage 2000-5 or F-16 Block 60 do not have them, and those are confirmed unlike "Super-10". BTW, I'm not surprised that Fisher had different info for 2006 report, PLA watchers (or actually any important military observers) always need to update according to the latest news. Ch2000 03:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with pictures

Hello. Just seen the photoes have some website marks on them. Did the original uploader copied these photoes form other websites? Please use a good license type. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vintei (talk • contribs) 16:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)