Talk:Cheng Man-ch'ing

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There's no Senate in Taiwan--Jiang

I think there is a problem with some historical accuracy. CMC was not a MD. He was a doctor of Chinese medicine. He had a lang disease which was later described as tuberculosis. To claim/imply that taichichuan cure tuberculosis is irresponsible, IMO.

Right, no Senate... it's called the National Assembly.

Another correction: To say that no Yang style teacher recognized Cheng's changes to the form is incorrect. Chen Wei Ming, the author of the famous Tai Chi Chuan Ta Wen (Questions and Answers on Tai Chi Chuan), one of Yang Cheng-Fu's most senior students, not only recognized Cheng's contributions, but wrote the preface to his first tai chi book.


Strangely this page hardly mentions the Chinese students of Cheng (perhaps out of ignorance?) There were many serious and skilled senior students of Cheng in Taiwan who continued to spread his tradition.

Many of Cheng's direct students (particularly those who were Chinese and learnt from him in Chinese) consider that they do Yang style, and that Cheng's form is a Yang style short form. A few still do the 108 form passed down from Cheng as well as the 37 form. This article uses Cheng style throughout and does not acknowledge that the concept of "Cheng style" is something that has come about after Cheng's death rather than from Cheng.

Cheng's 37 form has obvious differences from 108. The article assumes that these are defining characteristics of "Cheng style". No evidence is provided that Cheng thought this. Also some "defining features" of the supposed "Cheng style" are common in other Yang style schools.

That's not quite accurate. I've read at least few Taiwanese lineage stating that Cheng Taichiquan is a distinct style. It may be the case that "earlier" students of Cheng may consider that they are practicing Yang style or abbrebiated Yang style. Anyway, there are many style of Chinese kung fu where the "so-called" founder never claimed a distinct style. Rather, all lineages evolve and become distinct over time. For example, can we be certain that Yang Lu-ch'an practiced Yang "style" of taichiquan? I would say that he probably practiced modified Chen style. Does it mean there is no such thing as Yang style? Or should we say Yang style was founded by the Yang Ch'eng-fu who removed the vigorous Fa-jing, energetic jumping, heavy stepping, and other abrupt movements? Considering that Yang lineage do not recognise CMC style of taichichuan as a part of Yang, I can't see why there is a problem in saying CMC style? If it's not a yang style, it's a separate style. CMC is the founder of CMC style which is an off shoot of Yang style. Vapour

BTW, I have a clip of CMC performing his entire form from the begining to the end. Is there any way to upload it on this article? Vapour

If you upload it onto Youtube or Google video and then provide an external link to that page on this article that should do the trick. There are lots of public domain Tai Chi videos on those sites already, so it may save you some time to search for uploaded CMC videos on those sites first. --Fire Star 火星 15:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] major revisions

Hi-- I've made some major revisions to this page based on cited books and articles, and have done a bit of cutting and pasting to try to make it read more smoothly. Will add some more books when I have time. Ruguo 06:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ghost Writing?

There needs to be a second source verification of the claim that Yang Cheng-Fu's book was ghost written by Cheng. Otherwise I will delete. VanTucky 01:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC) If you read the Chinese (Original) version of the book you would know that the liniage for Zhengmanqing is extensive, far more than Yang Chen Fu's, this is because Yang Chen Fu was illiterate and Zhengmanqing wrote the book. Why would Yang Chen Fu write such an extensive liniage of Zhengmanqing, the answer is he didn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.207.65.251 (talk) 19:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] videos?

Should the videos be listed if they are bootlegged?

I added again the ghostwriting citation with references. I removed the video link as per copyright discussion, and added some Chinese names Ruguo 05:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

the video is not a copywright violation. its free to view and link to by anyone. VanTucky 06:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I re-entered the ghostwriting reference with the requested citation added. As to the videos, if they are being distributed without permissions from the copyright owners, they would seem to be violations. Perhaps someone higher up in Wikipedia could advise. Ruguo 05:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

google video, youtube and the various other sources that make this video available would not use it if they were in copywright violation. and besides, to place a vid on google you cant just bootleg it and stick it on there. VanTucky 06:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

These sites DO display copyright violated materials. And people bootleg them all the time.

[edit] CMC style; rotating on the heel or the 'yung chuan' point at the end of 'Single Whip'?

Maybe someone can help out here; if the left kua (inguinal canal) is closing and the right kua opening, and the right knee is not totally collapsing onto the left side (ie. William cc Chen's 'three nails' theory) then, in the transition from eg. 'hold ball right' to the end of 'single whip' does one really rotate on/through the heel, or on/through the Yung Chuan ('bubbling well')? In Western boxing, when throwing a right hook off the front leg, one is told to rotate on the front part of the back 'empty' foot "As if squashing a bug" as seen at [1]. However, at [2], Nigel Sutton's wife is seen raising the foot and rotating on the heel.. 81.132.68.59 00:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

That was such a byzantine description of movement, I have no idea what youre talking about... VanTucky 02:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new article

Similar to the split of Moy Lin Shin, Taoist Tai Chi and Taoist Tai Chi Society, I think we need to make "Cheng man ching's tai chi" a separate stub. Sprcifically referring to the 36 form of course. any objections? VanTucky 06:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

Removed a couple of references. One to Zhong Ding in UK looked to be commercial link. If they can justify why it should be listed, okay, but otherwise, hundereds of others will want to be listed as well. Also, Kung fu book removed, couldn't see why it was listed in first place. Still are a lot of cites missing for bio section.Taiji19 (talk) 21:56, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I took out a reference to Abraham Liu as a co-author of Smith& CHeng. Should be T.T. Liang. A couple other minor changes.Ruguo (talk) 12:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)