Talk:Cheddar cheese

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[edit] Popularity

Removed: Cheddar cheese has perhaps always been the most popular cheese in England.

No evidence for this. Also, article on Cheshire Cheese states that during the 1800 it was the most popular. --- Could someone please provide a citation to support the assertion that white cheddar is called Vermont cheddar even when it does not originate from Vermont?

[edit] Cheddar cheese family?

I've never heard that there is a Cheddar cheese family, but I can accept that. However, I would think it very unlikely that Wensleydale and Caerphilly belong to it - they are very very different types of cheese, being white and crumbly rather than solid and yellow/orange. Are we quite sure this is true? Deb 17:29 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Deb. I don't think there is a Cheddar cheese family. All the cheeses listed are very different in taste, colour, and texture. Anyone object to an update ? Julianp 02:32, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

  • "English cheeses such as Gloucester, Cheshire, Leicester, Lancashire, Derby, Wensleydale and Caerphilly all belong to the Cheddar family." as per [1] -- Nunh-huh 02:43, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi Nunh-huh (how do you pronouce that !) I checked out reference [1] and it still seems wrong to me. I'll check out some local references and see if I can find any evidence for it. Julianp 02:47, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi. It could be wrong, but just wanted to indicate that the idea of a cheddar family wasn't without support. I wonder if it might not be that using place of origin / technique of manufacture / taste as criteria might not lead people to different ways to classify cheeses and that what sounds right using one method of classification sounds wrong under another? And I've never heard it said aloud, but I'm proposing that the 'h' in Nunh is silent<G>. -- Nunh-huh 03:26, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I would have thought the 'cheddar family' would simply encompass any cheese that calls itself cheddar, running from the mild cheddar through to "Canadian Reserve" and similar extra-mature varieties.128.232.250.254 23:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I've never heard a cheese call itself anything ... (must listen harder)  :-) quota (talk) 15:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, good cheddar often is very crumbly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.171.163.185 (talk) 13:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moon made of cheese

Removed: According to the Aardman Animation cartoon characters Wallace and Gromit, the Moon is made of cheddar cheese. This in itself is a perpetuation of an extremely old and persevering English folk myth, frequently related to gullible youngsters, which made and still to this day makes similar assertions.

If I recall my Wallace and Gromit correctly, they didn't identify the type of cheese that the Moon was made of. And does the old myth (no, wait, it's true!) about the Moon being made of cheese specify that it's Cheddar cheese? As far as I know, it doesn't. So I've removed the whole thing. -- Oliver P. 13:26 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

It usually specifies "green cheese" (meaning unripened, rather than a color), not cheddar. -- Nunh-huh 02:45, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Colour

"Like many cheeses, the colour of cheddar is often modified by the use of food colourings. Annatto, extracted from a tropical tree, is frequently used to give cheddar an orange colour

Is this a US thing? In my experience if its orange it isn't cheddar. Propose to remove. Any comments? Julianp 03:41, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Your experience differs from that of Food Network and Food reference, but I don't know if that has anything to do with nationality. - Nunh-huh 03:48, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Some UK cheeses are coloured orange (e.g.Gloucester) but never cheddar. Of course some colouring may be used for consistency is mass-produced cheddar cheeses (but not orange). I now live in Australia and there is no orange cheddar here either. Shall we make it an "In the U.S. ....." ? Julianp 04:06, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I wouldn't add anything based on personal experience. Is there some source somewhere that discusses national cheese traditions? I wonder, like you, if it's not more a matter of mass-produced vs locally-produced. =- Nunh-huh 05:38, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
As a Brit (and a cheese), I'm here to tell you that we do in fact have artificially orange (or "red") cheddar over here (and yes, it tends to be of the mass-produced, mild, rather tasteless, variety). --Camembert
Camebert is correct. Double Gloucester and Red Leicester cheeses are _always_ (or virtually always) artificially coloured. "Coloured cheddar", invariable the mild variety, is available; it would be interesting if sales figures for coloured vs uncoloured cheddar was available. 128.232.250.254 23:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

In England, where the cheese originates, Cheddar is pale yellow even the processed variety. I haven't seen any other colour. I don't know which part of Britain Camebert is from.This entry needs changing to be less American orientated.--Mariegriffiths 22:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

It does seem common in the US for mass-market cheddar to be brightly colored (orangish), but it would be hard to pin down exact facts on the matter. 69.87.193.151 14:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, indentifying cheddar speciffically as a coloured cheese would be mainly an American thing. In Australia I've never come accross coloured cheddar, no matter where the original product was produced, processed or not. In fact, the whole section on the "character" of Cheddar chese would probbaly be better titled as the chraracter of cheddar chese in the US. OzoneO 14:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] King Henry and his cheese

A pipe roll of King Henry II records the purchase of 10,420 pounds (4.73 tonnes) at a farthing per pound (£5.51 per tonne).

Just a note for whover wrote this: you're correct up to figuring out that this is 551 pence per tonne (2205 farthings per tonne, and a tonne is 2204.62262 pounds). But this was old money, and there were 240 pence in the pound, not 100. I've changed it accordingly. Marnanel 18:39, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This story about Henry does NOT need to be at the fore of the article. 24.13.86.24 04:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I can say that In Canada we also colour most of our cheddar orange and I came to this site to find out why!

[edit] Cheddar is a village, not a town

I have corrected this article to say that Cheddar is a village, not a town. I then reverted a reversion of my correction. In addition to being a resident of the village, and its own Wikipedia article a quick internet search has shown the following sources that correctly site the settlement as a village: [2], [3] and [4]. Thryduulf 16:32, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

So go edit Cheddar and remove it from Category:Towns in Somerset before you come back. Or just forget this silliness. Gene Nygaard 16:48, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I've corrected the category Cheddar is in. It seems people have a penchent for calling it a town. It is not a town and never has been, the next settlement Axbridge is a town, although it is smaller than Cheddar. The reason for this is that it was granted a charter by King John to become a town, as at that period in history Axbridge was the more important place. Cheddar didn't start growing to the size it is today until the Victorian era. Thryduulf 16:57, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I was mostly interested in pointing out how silly the whole thing is. Even if you hadn't changed the village's category, I don't really care. I live in a "city" myself—even though it has a lot fewer people than either Cheddar or Axbridge, it has a lot more than some of the other cities in Wikipedia, such as the city of Wellington (pop. 561)! Gene Nygaard 19:09, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Just because something isn't important to you doesn't mean it doesn't interest other people! If it were my home, I'd want it described properly. Be more polite.
I imagine we'd have to ship you off to Bedlam if you ever had to deal with the "village" of Rock City or the "city" of Prairie Village! Gene Nygaard 19:23, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Don't tell him that the City of New Orleans is a train; he might go flip out and kill people. 24.13.86.24 04:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wax

I think it is extremely unlikely that "cheddar is traditionally packaged in black wax". Cheesecloth seems likely. While it is occasionally packaged in wax (I have seen black) I think this is probably new. I only have one oldish cheese book - will see if it says anything, but otherwise I will remove/rewrite this line. Justinc 10:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colby Cheese vs. Cheddar Cheese

Given the article on Colby cheese, it would seem that the section on US Cheddar cheeses needs to be changed. I will do so; please feel free to revert or edit if you believe this is wrong. The old version is here:

In the United States, cheddar cheese comes in several varieties, including mild, medium, sharp, New York Style, Colby/Longhorn, white, and Vermont. New York Style Cheddar cheese is a particularly sharp cheddar cheese, sometimes with a hint of smoke. It is usually slightly softer than milder cheddar cheese. Colby/Longhorn Cheddar cheese has a mild to medium flavor. The curds are still distinct, often marbled in color, varying from cream to yellow.

[edit] royal cheese

this sentence is bothersome in so many ways:

A pipe roll of King Henry II records the purchase of 10,420 pounds at a farthing per pound (£3 per tonne).

as someone has noted above, its placement in the lead paragraph of the article is unwarranted. this alone is hardly one of the most significant facts about cheddar cheese.

it also lacks the kind of context that would make it at all relevant to this or any other article, except perhaps List of items purchased with royal funds during the reign of Henry II of England (an article that would probably be deleted, and deserve it). we're not told:

  • if this amount of cheese is significant or insignificant relative to the amount that was produced in england in whatever unspecified year this pipe roll is from. was the king hogging all the cheese, or was it so abundant that he could buy 10,000 pounds of it without significantly affecting the market, or was his purchase significant but not overwhelming? (for that matter, what other kinds of cheese did he purchase, and how much of them? was cheddar far and away the favorite, or was it equal to others, or was it less popular?)
  • how the amount and the price (enumerated in minute detail as they are) relate to the amounts purchased and prices paid at other times. do they perhaps indicate a shortage of cheese in this unspecified year? a glut? a normal amount?
  • why this cheese was purchased. was this just business as usual? (if so, was it for a year, a month, a week?) was henry II very, very fond of cheese? was his royal household? did he need easily transportable food supplies? was there a famine or food shortage somewhere that he was trying to alleviate with shipments of government cheese?

and to top it all off, there is no source provided, so there's no way to verify if this fact is even true (unless one has £20.00 to spare and can read whatever medieval language is used in these pipe rolls[5]—if it's even in one of those), or to see if perhaps some historian of cheeses has provided any of the answers that would add some shred of relevance. i'm going to remove it until it can be made into more than a free-floating bit of trivia. 65.95.37.193 11:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

update: i see that once upon a time there was some attempt at making this information useful. perhaps it was correct, perhaps it was an unwarranted interpretation (no reference, no way to check), but it was at least an attempt. it got deleted by someone who wasn't paying enough attention to realize that the next sentence was there only as supporting evidence for the statement that cheddar was perhaps always the most popular cheese in england. 65.95.37.193 11:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Sources don't appear to be a problem, a quick google search for Henry II Cheddar cheese -wikipedia gives many websites with the claim, the source for several of these appears to be The Cheddar Gorge Cheese Company (a cheese maker based in Cheddar Gorge), and the date appears to be 1170. All site the same "pipe roll", which would presumably be written in Anglo-Norman French (although it is possible, but unlikely, it could be in Middle English) - I speak neither of these languages. Thryduulf 12:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I've restored the sentence, and added the source and date. However I've moved it from the lead paragraph into a new Trivia section at the end. Thryduulf 12:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
the page now cited implies that the significance of this record is that it's the earliest known reference to cheddar cheese. put that way, this fact is highly relevant and does indeed belong in the intro paragraph. 65.95.37.193 16:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sheep & Goats

Can cheddar be made from sheep milk? Can cheddar be made from goat milk? 69.87.204.160 20:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Cheddar cheese can also be made from goat milk. There are over 500,000 google matches for "goat cheddar", oodles of people selling it, so anyone with any interest in this fact can easily determine the truth. I edited the article to reflect this. Someone immediately reverted. So, now it will be up to the rest of you to defend the truth, if you care. 69.87.194.144 00:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for putting the goats back in. I was contemplating adding the text "Cheddar is usually made from cow milk, but can also be made from goat milk." It would be good if someone who knows about goats ever comes here if they would add an appropriate section. Based on the large number of google matches, I think "rarely goats" may still be over-qualified. But only someone who really knows chesse, cheddar, cows, and goats can say for sure! It seems that most any cheese can also be made from goat milk, but that cheddar is perhaps the most common hard cheese that actually is. 69.87.193.151 14:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's a tricky situation: I suspect goat cheddar is a very minor aspect of "cheddar cheese", but a fairly significant aspect of "goat cheese". The main Cheese article is pretty good, but only deals with goat and sheep in passing. So it seems like whatever we have to say about goat cheddar has to go here, at least until we get a proper "goat cheese" article. 69.87.199.92 20:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cheddar Live

We have just completed installation, on behalf of a client, of a web-cam which will be recording the full year-long life cycle of a block of PDO'd Cheddar Cheese.

The cheese in question was born yestarday.

Personally I think it's quite an interesting opportunity for anyone such as myself who eats and enjoys Cheddar but has no experience of how it's made or matured.

Nevertheless being quite a wiki-newbie I'm not 100% sure whether it's appropriate for the Cheddar Cheese wiki page so I'm posting here in the hope that someone might share their views.

The camera is streamed through a Flash widget at www.cheddarvision.tv

--Jimbo 14:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the info here. My attempts to View the Cheese have failed -- makes my Firefox crash in Win98SE (and Opera too)... I can't well judge if it might belong on the article page somehow, but since it is your project, you probably should not be trying to figure that out -- better to leave it to us more neutral folk to decide if it seems Worthy! 69.87.204.125 19:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Superb. Nothing wrong with having a bit of fun on Wikipedia IMHO. I watched the cheese for a while, although not much happened. Going back to watching the paint dry as the grass doesn't grow much at this time of year. --Cheesy Mike 21:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too much of an American slant on the article

For a cheese that originated in England and one of the most famous English Cheeses this article seems to talk far too much about American cheese and american regulations. Why talk about Colby and New York style yet not mention by name varieties like Red Leicester?

The article also doesn't seem to mention flavoured varieties like port or ale flavoured cheddar —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abigsmurf (talk • contribs) 01:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Is Red Leicester considered to be cheddar cheese? I've never seen it described as such whenever I've bought it. 217.34.39.123 12:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First picture

I wonder if we can find a better picture for the top of the article. A bright orange cuboid is hardly a good example of a Cheddar cheese :-) quota 07:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sharpness standards?

Much of the cheese sold in the US as "sharp" or "extra sharp" does not actually seem to taste very sharp. Are there any standards regarding this? Is the situation any different in Europe? -69.87.201.47 18:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

UK labelling relates to strength. Typical labels are mild, medium, mature and extra mature. Some also use vintage. There is no standardisation so one brand's mild will be another's medium. Mild tends to be factory-made block cheese. Most hand made or "farmhouse" Cheddars tend to be at the stronger end of the spectrum. --Cheesy Mike 19:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Record age of ultra-reserved cheddars

Cabot Cheese sells an extremely reserved 2 lb block of cheese through their website called "Old School". This cheddar has been aged for FIVE YEARS before being sold to the public. Does anyone know what the record is, for the longest-aged cheddar cheese? Or is this perhaps it?

http://www.cabotcheese.com

[edit] Vegetarian cheddar?

"A slice of vegetarian Cheddar cheese (40 g) contains about 0.5 µg of vitamin B12 (required daily intake for an adult is 2.4 µg)."

What the heck is vegetarian cheddar? It was not introduced in the article prior to discussing it's nutritional benefits. From the name it sounds like an imitation cheese. Could someone define this term earlier in the article, or if, so to speak, it is a completely different animal, perhaps it should be removed entirely... -Verdatum (talk) 20:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Vegetarian cheddar is made using rennet that is not sourced from dead calves' stomachs. Will adjust article accordingly. --TimTay (talk) 21:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Expertly done, I appreciate the speedy response! -Verdatum (talk) 14:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
As a resident of Cheddar and frequent consumer of the cheese it would be rude not to! --TimTay (talk) 14:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)