Talk:Chav

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  1. September 2004 - September 2005
  2. September 2005 - April 2006
  3. May 2006 - September 2006
  4. Discussions from Charver Article (Redirect)

Contents

[edit] Devvo

There is a popular character named "Devvo" that was introduced on www.fat-pie.com. He is the stereotypical chav. I believe he may be parodying one. I will provide a link so one of the editors can add this in, because it is definitely worth adding.

http://www.fat-pie.com/chavs.htm --83.104.237.41 (talk) 10:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CHAV

The word CHAV is from the Romani word 'CHAV' which is a shortened version of their word CHAVO / CHAHVO meaning 'A boy of Romani origin'. A non-Romani boy is known as a 'RAKLO / RAHKLO'.

Many travellers do also say chavi / chahvi but this should be for a girl as 'i' on the end is feminine. 'o' on the end of a word is masculine.

This newly found use of the word by youngsters started in the ex-naval town of Chatham in Kent. In Chatham at the start of the 1900's there used to be a very lot of travellers living in the Beacon Road and old ash tree lane areas. Over the passing years these families are now intergrated into the local housing estates. These families are often related to one another as travellers tend to marry amongst travellers. Young boys amongst travelling families are often expected to be able to box as part of their culture and with the support of big families they often become influentual amongst other children in the local schools. What has occures as a result of all this is alot of the local youth have become traveller wannabees. The same has also happened in many other local towns around Kent. Kent was famous for travellers as it had plenty of farms which provided work for them.

Local youth growing up in these areas would try and learn and copy the words used amongst the ex-travelling families such as Romani words; chav - boy, mush - man, jel - go, chor - steal and also words from traveller slang; mort - woman, jank - toilet, ken - house.

About 10 yrs ago in Chatham some of the local popular kids who were growing up and going to school together started calling themselves 'chavs' or 'Chatham Chavs' as a kind of gang or identity. At first they would wear a flat cap as a code of dress and the girls who would follow them would wear the gypsy style big ear rings. Things developed from this and before anyone knew it the term and fashion had caught on and spread throughout.



[edit] CHAVI IS NOT ROMANI FOR BOY THOUGH SOME ENGLISH TRAVELLERS MISTAKINGLY SAY IT

Actually being from a Romani family and therefore having a good knowledge on the language I can confirm that chavo is boy (of Romani bloodline). Chavi means girl. In some dialects of Romani in Eastern Europe they say 'Chavoro'.

The Romani language has its origins from India. The root of this word is from the Sanskrit sva meaning 'one's own'. Evolving the word via the Rajput / Rajasthani regional dialects makes it become chavo as the 's' becomes 'ch' and 'o' at the end replaces the 'a'. In modern Rajasthani we have chav meaning 'like' and choro meaning 'boy'. Therefore the word means 'a boy that is one own'.

[edit] NED

As a thorough bred Scot I would like to point out that Chav is an English expression - the Scottish equivalent being NED (N.E.D. or Non-Educated Delinquent) the two stereotypes are similar, however, the connotations are slightly different including such things as Buckfast, Lacoste trainers, Vauxhall Novas and white shellsuits. Therefore, this article is incorrect in its broad generalisation of Scotland and England as the United Kingdom - Scotland is a completely different country, fortunately sharing only a common language and border. Actually, Scotland is a SLIGHTLY different country from England - they have a lot more in common than they both care to think.

[edit] tone

Can we reformat this page to follow more closely the layout and tone of other offensive slurs on Wikipedia? i.e. this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_trash etc? Currently this page looks like a middle class critisism of 'Chav' culture, rather than a properly written description of a slur.

[edit] Australian/New Zealand Chavs

What are Chavs known as in Australia/New Zealand?, I heard they are called 'Chozzies'.

User:Jetwave Dave 28/06/07 00:56PM


Never heard of that, I live in NZ. Sounds stupid enough to be aussie slang though :P 123.100.89.49 04:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The Chozzie link just links back to Chav, if it is an Aussie term(it's not one I've ever heard) then it should probably link to Bogan IMO nigell k 16:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Probably bogan or westie- West Auckland has its own distinctive brand of pot-smoking, heavy metal fancying, rugby league addict working-class folks who might be identified with it. For more details on westie subculture, see Outrageous Fortune (TV series), an NZ black comedy series that celebrates the lives of one westie family... Calibanu 02:43, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[User Calibanu]15.40, 28 October 2007

Never heard them called Chozzies in Australia, though i have heard the term wigger a few times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.64.244 (talk) 12:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ivardj Norwegian Chavs

Could someone please change the Norwegian equivalent back to Harry as a Fjortis is of a certain age (around fourteen. Fjorten = fourteen), and doesn't really have the same "qualities" as a chav? Harry is the closest you'll get in Norway.

[edit] The Cheltenham Connection

I have recently discoverd that the Cheltenham derravation of Chave is CHeltenham AVerage man.

[edit] List of Stereotypes

The list has really gotten out of hand. I've tried pruning it back before, but the edit was undone. Honestly, the list is twice as long as the article itself, not to mention a lot of the stereotypes mentioned really aren't similar to chavs at all! I'd like to try again to revise this section, but I'd also like to see how the other editors feel on the subject so as to avoid the edit being undone. DuckieRotten 14:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is mush a slang term for mate used by chavs?

The Mush dab page has this line:

Does this accurately report how the word mush is used by chavs? --Jtir 10:22, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

No, "mush" is a long-standing word in English slang and pre-dates the chav phenomenon by a long way. Itsmejudith 11:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I copied the above to Talk:Mush. --Jtir 18:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Think Mush come from Anglo-Indian/Urdu or Romany meaning face. It has the same currency as "oh, same old faces...", but much more familiarly. Mike33 13:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Mush is actually the Romani word for 'man' which is short for Mahnush. The female equiverlent is Mahnushi. The Romani word for mouth is Mui'.

The Romani language is very close to modern Panjabi & Rajasthani but left India around 1000ad so has much more of a Sanskrit influence.

Romani has over the years influenced the English language. The english word punch come from Pahnj meaning 'five', Kosh comes from Kahsht meaning 'stick', lolly pop come from lahli pahbai meaning 'red apple'.

The Romani that went to Spain are called the 'Cale' (Kahleh) or the gitanos. They also have influenced the Spanish language in the same way with certain words.

The English custom of giving silver at a Christening originates from the Romani people due to the famous Romani man 'Billy Marshall' giving spoons to the King of England at the birth of the King's son. Romani often cross the palm of a new born baby with silver as they believe it will bring future fortune.

[edit] Only one picture?

Can a black person be a chav ? 86.140.24.150 (talk) 22:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


Only one picture? A cartoon at that, hell I could spend 10 seconds down town on a friday night and get pictures of thousands of the things. i posted loads I took myself to illustrate. one of our better editors decided that Wikipedia is not the place for candid camera shots in a derogatory setting. Waste of time posting pix they just get deleted by the PC IMAGE MAFIA. Good faith they can WP:GF!!!! Mike33 13:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi I think you that there should be a real life example of Chavs and Chav behaviour, and this link depicts both particularly well... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l5NckWZDyQ

[edit] deleted guido and bridge and tunnel from list of similar stereotypes

i am not an expert in this subject but it seems that although guido and bridge and tunnel are negative/derogatory stereotypes, they are not equivalent to chav for their part of the world. the other terms on the list seem to refer to similar phenomena localized around the world. these two items IMHO do not fit on the list. if you feel strongly enogh otherwise, go ahead and restore them. the problem is that this list could easily become just a list of derogatory slang, as opposed to chav-like terms outside of england and wales. uri budnik 01:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chav in common use in Cheltenham in the 1990's

As someone who has lived in Cheltenham for the last 18 years, and one of whose children attended Cheltenham Ladies College, I can confirm that the word 'chav' has been in common useage in Cheltenham for many years. Our children used it when they were smaller (say 10 years ago, so 1996). We had to stop them using it as it has derogatory overtones.

Interestingly they believe that it was in far more common use at the boy's school Cheltenham College (CC) rather than at Cheltenham Ladies College (CLC). It is generally held that the media attributed the word to CLC as it made better copy to imagine posh girls looking down on local boys.

I have no idea whether the word originated in Cheltenham, or was imported, but it certainly predates the media interest of the last few years.

The current Oxford Dictionary of English predates the gals at Chel'nam by 150 years and puts it down to a Romany word meaning child. In current parlez it certainly is 15 years old, but from where and when???? Mike33 13:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Radjee

Now I thought I knew everything - but RADJEE as in

common expample of a chav band is http://www.myspace.com/sealhaven their music is proppa radjee

What on earth does Radjee mean? Mike33 13:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

‘Radjee’, is the term ascribed to the behaviour of an individual who is rather annoyed; approximate to ‘flying off the handle’ or in a huff etc.Mrheathcliff 17:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cheltenham - Chavs, Mush, 90's and cheap jeans

I also come from Cheltenham (and went to Pate's Grammar, where we also looked down on the locals from Hester's Way), and the term 'Chav' has been in use since the mid 90's around here. However the use of the word 'mush' was in wide use before 'chav'. The Hesters way (stereotype here, it was area wide) locals would wear really baggy jeans with words like 'Eclipse', 'Spliffy' on the back pocket, we called them 'Trackies', they used to call everyone 'mush' which we all thought was Romani for 'man'. Becuase there were large groups of kids like this, they got called 'chavs' which we thought was Romani for 'kid'. I guess the people that attended the public schools picked up the local lingo.

I went to Pate's Grammar AND was one of those locals from the Hester's Way council estate that you looked down on too. What you say is nonsense and I don't recognise any of it. What this whole debate about chav shows to me is we need to drop the labels for people


[edit] Pronunciation?

How about a guide to pronunciation? I have no idea how this is said (shav, chav?), so I can't help.

It's in the wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chav

[edit] UK Debate

I believe the term "Chav" is only used in England and Wales. I now for a fact where i live (Scotland) we use the term "Ned" (see [Ned (Scottish)]) and also think they don't use Chav in Northern Ireland. I would suggest the opening sentence is changed to account for this fact but i wont change it until some people reply to this. This is the discussion page after all. Zippokovich 00:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you are right. Moreover, as has been said, "charva" is the more common term in the north of England and the meaning is not necessarily identical. Unless we have any evidence that the term is in common use outside England, then the lead to the article should specify England rather than UK. Itsmejudith 11:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Except that it has been established that everywhere has its own terms for the group and that 'Chav' is unique in that its use by mainstream media means that it would be understood by people across the UK, whereas regional variants arent. Kev, Ned, Scally, Charva, Townie etc. all = Chav. --Robdurbar 11:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
'Chav' is only used by the English press, as most of them are based in the south of England, where Chav is used. However all the Scottish papers/News use Ned and most Scots don't know what a Chav is. Furthermore Chav is just another local variant, spoken by the largest minority. Since the term is not in use in any where other than England/Whales (and in the evidence that Itsmejudith give possibly just the South of England) I still up hold that the article should be changed from:

"Chav is a derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom (UK)" to "Chav is a derogatory slang term in the South of England and Whales". It would also be good if someone could give me conformation on what is used in Whales. Zippokovich 00:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Changed lead to "England" since a) we know it is in common use in at least part of England and b) we know there are alternative terms in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Note that this wording does not actually rule out the idea that "chav" would be recognised in other parts of the UK. However, with "England", the article is playing safe and sticking to what the sources tell us. Itsmejudith 11:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I think charva is just the north east, not all of northern england. My family certainly use chav and they are in Yorkshire. However this counts as original research, we need sources. Secretlondon 18:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Appearance of vandalism-type material referencing Cheshire would tend to show that it is current in the north west, as you say. However, as you point out, that's original research. Itsmejudith 15:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

How about The viz--Josquius 22:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

If you mean Viz magazine as a source for references to chav/charva, it would seem to be relevant. Why not try adding something? Itsmejudith 15:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

“Charva” redirects to this page. Wictionary indicates that the terms have distinct etymological origins. The term is in common usage in the North East which is, generally speaking, comprises Northumberland, Tyne & Wear, Durham and Cleveland. Yorkshire culturally, politically and linguistically is distinct from the North East, it is therefore unsurprising that residents are not familiar with the finer parts of Geordie dialect.

~~Re: the immediate above. I'm Yorkshire born and bred (Bradford) and during the late 80's and early 90's at Upper School we used the word "Charver" (note the difference in spelling) all the time! We used it to mean the following: someone who is out to rob you or short change/con you in a cheeky kind of way. Although this is what might be termed "original research" it proves the word(Charva)wasn't just confined to the mean streets of Northumberland and County Durham but as far south as the West Riding! PS Tyne and Wear was the name of a county council that was abolished some time ago and most of what was called "Cleveland" is in fact Yorkshire, so why it's regarded as the North East is beyond me apart from it being in the North East England Government Office Region! (AMD, Yorkshre)~~

As far as printed sources go, the word has been recognised by the national media. [*] The North East press (Evening Chronicle, Journal, Northern Echo &c.) frequently use the word. [*] The Gloucester Citizen: February 23, 2006, pg 12 [*] Daily Mail: October 13, 2004 pg 64 Laura Clark [*] Western Morning News (Plymouth): September 17, 2004, pg 22 [*] The Liverpool Daily Post & Echo: October 23, 2001, pg 6 Rosie Williams

A close reading of this article would seem to indicate that whilst there is no mutual exclusivity, the two terms can be distinguished. The label ‘chav’ is affixed to anyone who conforms to a fashion driven consumerist stereotype; as exemplified by celebrities mentioned in the article body. The label ‘charva’ is affixed to members of the ‘Lumpenproletariat’. Many members of this latter group do ascribe to the same consumerism as those of the former, as evidenced by increasing theft of mobile phones and fashionable shoes amongst teenagers. Mrheathcliff 19:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Seems popular here in Wrexham, Wales - too popular for my liking! Marbles333 18:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Chav is a well-known term in Manchester and Sheffield - but the term "Scally" is still holding out strongly in Manchester as well (particularly for chavs from Liverpool). I don't know what "Whales" call chavs, as I don't speak Sea Mammal fluently. CJ

hmm...It seems charver is editable once more.
The previous VFD on that article was not fair at all- none of the editors of the article were informed and it happened overnight with none of us being any the wiser.
Now things are different too, there is far more of a case for it being its own....Should we go and split this one into chav/charva making a note for the Londoners that this is referring to the fashionable type of chav and charva is on the scummy type?--Josquius 13:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I live in scotland and (in my school at lest) chav is used alot, N.E.D(Non Educated Delicwit) is basicly a chave who dosent go to school. alot of 1st years co to the park at lunch (amoung them alot of chavs) and the chavs are alot of trubal,basicly chavs are the lafing stok.

In the south west of england, chav is considered by some to be short for 'chav scum' as was noted by robert rankin in a Q&A session, though he mentioned that he prefers to think of them as burberrians. If anyone can locate the transcript of that Q&A to cite the reference, it would increase the accuracy of the article.SirEelBiscuits (talk) 13:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ireland

do they have chavs in ireland

See the See Also, Other Europe for Irish (including northern Irish) synonyms. Itsmejudith 22:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Em yes, they're called knackers or skangers. Around Limerick there known as scumbags,literally —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.203.223.221 (talk) 02:38, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heads up

Just a heads up, you'll have already noticed, people pissing about with the page. I can see how it might be amusing if they were being subtle, but ffs... Oh, and dont forget the 'emo' reference in the 'Criticisms' heading. Who want's to bet it was some 13 yr old kid with a persecution complex? I'd do this myself but my html/editing is genereally a bit too crappy not to risk messing something up (and the urge to badmouth Julie Burchill might be too much even for me). Cheers

139.184.30.16 20:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)MNONE

[edit] Kapper?

In the similar stereotypes section, under the subheading The Pacific, one of the Australian terms listed is Kapper. I've never heard this term before and honestly it sounds like a word that would be used by a small group of people considering a quick Google only returns surnames for this term.
Can whoever added this term please create an article explaining it, or remove it if it's not in wide use. shiyoushi 16:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't add this, but in Scotland Kappa is a term for a chav, from the clothing brand Kappa (which is allegedly popular with chavs)


Ah ok then. Kappa sounds exactly the same as Kapper, so whoever made that entry probably just misspelt it. I'll just change the spelling in the article then :) shiyoushi 14:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about 'Lads'?

I'm from Sydney, and I know terms such as 'Yobbo' and 'Westie' aren't related to Chavs. These stereotypes are more linked to socio-economic status, fashions and social dispositions which are affilitated with attempting to achieve class and a higher standard of living, but to no or limited avail. I'm wondering why a widely accepted (and loathed) parallel to Chav culture, namely Sydney's 'Lads', aren't referenced at all. They are virtually identical in demeanor and fashion, and are a common sight in the harbour city's inner and outer suburbs. 203.51.57.109 08:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)blasko_88

[edit] Total re-write

Does anyone feel this whole article could have been written a whole lot better? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.146.55.19 (talk) 23:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC).

Yeah I've been thinking along those lines for a bit but am a bit too busy with non-wikipedia stuff right now...Maybe in mid Jan I'll take a look and split it more fully into charver and chav and hopefully try and get it to be less...bitty--Josquius 17:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chav jokes

I suspect the inclusion of a few chav hater jokes in the article would contravene the rules but is it OK for the discussion.

What do you write on a chav's birthday card?

To a Grandma whose 27 today!


(22 would be a more accurate portral) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.66.249 (talk) 15:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music in the lead para

The suggested types of music liked by chavs keeps being altered and we have no source for it anyway. Unlike, say, heavy metal fans, this stereotype/subculture is not really defined by its taste in music. Do we have consensus for taking the types of music out of the lead? Comments welcome. Thanks.Itsmejudith 13:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that music is transitory, however the places that chavs tend to spend their holidays tends to be fairly constant. This is not mentioned in the article anywhere at present. Faliraki, Ibiza, Tenerife, anyone? Tobycek 17:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Bro (in United States and Canada)

Deleted 'bro' because it's a parody of a drastically different part of culture dealing with preps.


[edit] End of first para

The claim that "Chav is short for council houses and violence" should be removed. It doesn't seem to come up when I try to edit it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.69.28.55 (talk) 12:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Definition of pubic hair

"Some young male chavs tend to have pubic hair like facial hair, notably a moustache"... this needs to be changed to something that makes a lick of sense. Pubic hair does not grow on faces, and it doesn't help that this misuse of the phrase is actually a link to the definition of pubic hair. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.59.141.200 (talk) 08:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Origin of the word Chav dating back to 1980

I read with interest the comments about the word Chav being used in Cheltenham as long as 15 years ago and I believe that it's use originated as early as 1980 in Bromsgrove, Worcestershire.

Bromsgrove has 2 schools very close to each other at the south end of the town - Bromsgrove School (an independant fee-paying day and boarding school) and South Bromsgrove High School which is now described as a technology school but back then was just the plain old high school for all the regular kids in the south of the town including those kids who lived on the council estate called CHARFORD which is where the school is located.

The South Bromsgrove kids had various names for the Bromsgrove School pupils which need not be discussed here but the unanimous name used by Bromsgrove School pupils for their next door neighbours was Chaf which when pronounced by kids with middle class accents sounded more like Chav.

In comparison to the smartly dressed Bromsgrove School pupils, the local kids tended to be scruffier, rougher and a little less well spoken which is where the sterotypical image has evolved from.

One reason which could be attributed to the country wide recognition and use of the term Chaf (or Chav) would be that typically a high proportion of pupils at Bromsgrove School were boarders coming in from all around the country during term time. On returning to their home towns during holidays they would continue to use the phrase to describe other kids who maintained the stereo-type image that had been created in the South of Bromsgrove.

83.104.170.53 22:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC) Paul H

  • I was interested to see this comment regarding the usage of "chav" in 1980's Bromsgrove, as I was going to post a comment that would further support the claim that chav originates from this area. Most people see the word chav as being a relatively new thing--and even this article lists it as coming into usage in the early 1990s--but my mother insists that she remembers scruffy/rough kids being called chavs in Kidderminster in the late 1970s. Kidderminster, being a large town approximately 10 miles west of Bromsgrove. Obviously this proves nothing, but it is interesting, I think. --Beeurd (talk) 03:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • It's been standard terminology in the North East of England as far back as around 1990, when individuals describable by the term first started to emerge, and burberry stopped being a look only elderly ex-miners sported. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.244.34 (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

Ok fine, i will admit i personally have no sympathy for chavs when bad things happen to them, and i honestly hate them, but seriously, everyone deserves to have their label describes WITHOUT bias! Get rid of all this '(often cheap)' and 'tacky' because it puts bias into the page. This isn't a personal report, its a matter of fact report. But if anyone wants to edit it into saying (often depicted as cheap) then go ahead. By the way i have resons for not doing it myself

Ofthen cheap is a description and I believe it not to be biased. When was the last time you saw a chav wearing a real rolex watch for instance? A thing that does need altering is the racism in this article. eg 'Multi-coloured offspring' I think this is more than slightly unacceptable. (88.212.141.49 23:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC))

re 2multi-coloured offspring" I don't think it's racist at all- all it does it paraody the apparent tendency for female chavs to have sex with all races of men, and have multi-coloured babies... whatever the PC term is now! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.27.251 (talk) 18:34, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I really don't like chavs, but some of them are not that bad and as a result we should not discriminate them. They are pretty stupid though.--Jammidodger 13:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC) :)

A chav, by definition is bad! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.203.223.221 (talk) 02:41, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that paticular paragraph must have been a recent addition. I've given the whole thing a copyedit, removed some unsourced ludicrous claims etc. Cheers for bringing it up. --Robdurbar 10:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

I noticed that several links on the rest of europe section direct to the wrong articles. As an example Guna, Mitra, Brian and Manele. Could the editors of these (or someone else) create the proper articles and the disambiguation? AxiomShell 13:19, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

We could just scrap the whole unsourced ugly section... --Robdurbar 15:36, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lily Allen

What about Lily Allen? She's one of the biggest celeb chavs.Nukleoptra 18:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

  • I have added an entry for her. As an American the first time I ever heard of the word was the repeated references in the comments section of her videos displayed on You Tube. I also added an entry for Tony Blair's Comic Relief imitation. I did hear part Blair's act on a radio newscast here and the word chav was used but have found no reference to the Prime Minster's act on that news organization or any other U.S. news organizations website.

Lily Allen went to Hill house. She's as far from a chav as you could find, at least in background. If you do think she's a chav, she's an exception, not a rule. She shouldn't be on the page, certainly! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.203.223.221 (talk) 02:43, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

I dont think class or background has anything to do with being a chav or not it is the way the people act that make them a chav

[edit] pikey not a synonym for chav

In East Anglia the word "pikey" refers to gypsy or travelling people. I assume it is the same elsewhere. Can "pikey" please be dropped from the list of synonyms 'less someone can produce a reference.

There are a large number of synonyms and regional variations of "chav", including "scally", "townie", "ned", "kev", "yarco", "dobber", "Mallie"[6], "Meader"[7], and in some areas, "Pikey".

Although some crossover must exist between "pikey" and "gypsy" groups they are considered to be separate.

Tarj 01:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

See the etymology for the word Chav. As in most cases it originates from a Romany word there is therefore a high correlation between slang words for gypsies and the word chav. -- Roleplayer 02:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm from East Anglia, For a short while Pikey became synonmous with "cheap and nasty" (for instance "that's a pikey car"). However for FAR longer (as far back as i can remember) it's been related to travellers, and appears to have returned to that status. In my experience when "Chav Culture" first started in 2001 or so (it evolved out of Laddism from the 90's) they where referred to as Barry Boys or Barry's in Cambridgeshire, and the term Chav didnt really become popular until about 2004, when The Sun started to go on about them. Barry Boy can still be used as a term, most notably on the barryboys.co.uk website, which mocks poorly-modified cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.230.130 (talk) 15:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
As i understand it, traditionally a pikey was a gypsy that would set up a turnpike tollbooth, and attempts to charge passers by for using the road. 'course i have no sources :D although dictionary.com agrees that the etymology is from turnpike. This would make it quite different from the meaning of a chav. SirEelBiscuits (talk) 13:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
"Pikey" is an offensive term for a gypsy or traveller on the basis that they travelled up and down the turnpikes, not that they set them up. Turnpikes were controlled by the wealthy. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Classism" Not Relevant Here

When a group clearly defines itself by dress and behavior, and others refer to them by creating a name for the group, it is inappropriate to call it "classism" or "racism". (The key phrase here is "defines itself". A deliberate act.) Classism is an economic distinction over which many have little power, and race is likewise something that people cannot control. Naming a group of people who deliberately dress and act alike is neither classism or racism! -- Jane Q. Public 04:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Southeast London 1997

I remember the word "chav" but more often "chavvy" definitely being used in 1997 possibly earlier, it meant "boy" and usually not derogatory, but "common", it was usually used as a friendly term of address similar to say "bruv", "cuz" or "homey". Carlwev 10:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pikey vs chav

I remember the word "pikey" was used in a derogatory way to refer to the stereotype anti social chav now depicted in the chav article. But around 1999 there became the distinction that: A pikey had to be a traveler or from a traveler family, usually used in a derogatory way to refer to the stereotype anti social traveler, but sometimes used in a derogatory or non-derogatory way to refer to any traveler whether they were anti-social or not - (What it had meant long before). - And a chav is the young anti-social stereotype what it means now. By now chav had long stopped being used for a friendly term of address. Carlwev 10:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] White Trash vs Chav

They both are very derogatory terms referring to lower class people that are not educated and drink a lot. The biggest difference in the meaning from what I read of chav on this page and how I hear white trash used in the states is that white trash does not have a criminal connotation. While people have contempt for white trash the pure hatred I see directed towered the chavs does not exist here. What does a have a connotation of criminality is the stereotype of black people who wear pants hanging low and caps worn backwards (that style has faded out) No single word to describe that look caught on in the states the way chav did in England. White Trash is mostly used in comedic routines. In the last few years the person most often described as white trash is Britney Spears. White Trash is not used to describe people in regular news articles. Edkollin 05:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Lower class people in the UK have generally been seen as criminals - previous terms such as yobbo had the same connotation. As for "pure hatred" this article is particularly bad and a long way from NPOV. This reflects the ammount of snobbery in the UK and the demographics of our contributors. It's a long way from being Wikipedia's best. Secretlondon 19:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I beg to differ, 'Ed'. Perhaps in those funny little red counties that re-elected Bush 'white trash' and 'redneck' are friendly terms, but there is definitely genuine hate towards and a criminal connotation with the term in NY and San Fran (both places in which I have lived and regularly witnessed this sentiment), most recently this has been portrayed in the media by the gypsy family on FX's The Riches (gypsies are the same thing as white trash/redneck/hick). If a person fitting that label lived near my house, I would certainly feel it necessary to lock up my garage and would suspect them to be involved in some sort of criminal activity. And 'wigger' is a perfect "single word" that's equivilant to chav, the ONLY difference is that chav is not race limited, and wigger is limited to whites (and at times Asians) whilst Hispanics and African-Americans are not labelled the same way in America (although the stereotype exists, they're given a pass in our politically correct society) except by racists (usually). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.39.34.170 (talk) 12:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Use of "sweatpants"

As this is a British related article, wouldn't it make more sense to use "track suit bottoms" rather than "sweatpants" in the article? --82.153.4.68 18:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Better known as Trakkies, Or Traki's in arab terms.

Makes sense, Done Rob 21:16, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

User:Jetwave Dave 28/06/07 00:59AM

[edit] See Also: Canada

The term "Skeet" should probably be included in there. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skeet&defid=639227. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baykur (talk • contribs)

[edit] Russian synonym

I would like to add Russian synonym of chavs. In Russia they are called "Gop" .

You can find article describing this subcultural notion in russian wikipedia http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D0%BF

This is a livejournal community http://community.livejournal.com/gopota concerning Gop


And here are some pictures of them

http://www.ljplus.ru/img3/l/a/laxyn/8pat8a.jpg http://img1.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/doci/dsf/dsfsdf-1165419243_i_9464.jpg http://img1.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/doci/dsf/dsfsdf-1165416999_i_4774_full.jpg http://www.ljplus.ru/img/b/i/bigpipon/normal_IMG_2177.jpg http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e174/sn2op/abibas.jpg http://www.softfacade.com/gop.jpg http://ru.fishki.net/picsr/mail/avvvar.jpg http://ru.fishki.net/picsr/mail/navech.jpg http://img.dirty.ru/warehouse/craps/iofstkpp.jpg http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/7373/viewcn0.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Surjo (talk • contribs) 15:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

These are just poor whites? We're really not interested.. Secretlondon 00:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Belgian and French synonyms

Belgium : chicho, baraki

France : tchawa, minch, prol, wesh wesh, racaille

[edit] Wigger

I suppose wigger (white nigger?) is an American approximation for chav as it applies to whites who affect the African-American ghetto lifestyle or culture. Basically morons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.104.202 (talk • contribs)

There is more to it ("whites who affect the African-American ghetto lifestyle or culture") than that in my opinion. Rob 21:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes? And? WiccaWeb 05:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Main picture

I suggest the main picture be replaced by the one of Gollum from Lord of the Rings as a chav (http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=Gollum+chav&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2). The current picture is quite cartoony and doesn't capture how distasteful they actually are. It looks almost cuddly, like some unruly kid, rather than the pseudo-methhead pallid-skinned spitting reality.

I will substitute this dozey chave with a more apropriate immage.--86.29.241.65 17:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What happened to "Townie"?

Why was it deleted? I had an article that was linked to "Townie" (in the University sense), so I'm quite glad I just decided to follow up the link. Serendipodous 19:51, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] about ali g

question... is Ali G, sacha cohen's character, a chav? I'm an american and not sure about chavs. so is ali g chav or junglist or both?

Probably, as his car (a poorly modified Renault if I'm not mistaken) his clothes and the way he speaks are common characteristics of 'Chavs' in modern culture. Colt M4 Reload 21:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Finnish synonym

I would like to see a Finnish synonym added. I recommend the word "amis" or if possible, listing both "amis" and "pissis". There is slight difference in the meaning of these words, but I think amis is better match of these two. The word amis comes from ammattikoulu, which means vocational training school. Amis guys like to add spoilers, furry dices to their cars and do all kind of tuning. They often try to grow mustache or just don't care shaving every day and because of that have often fine hair on the upper lip. They like wearing sweat suit and baseball cap. Amis is often used as a prefix, like "amiskundi" which means "amis-guy".

Pissis is newer term and although is similar to amis, doesn't contain the desire for tuning cars or mustache. The term pissis comes originally from the word pissiliisa (which means pissing Lisa) and describes the fact that they tend to drink too much cider or beer and then urinate on public places. Pissis is more often used when talking about girls and amis is used more often when talking about teenage boys. Pissis doesn't have to come from undereducated family and she/he can go to high school, where as amis person just goes to vocational training. Pissis not often used as a prefix.

[edit] lady sovereign

Lady sovereign considers herself a chav.


[edit] Daniella Westbrook

Article looks well-balanced, would like to see mention of what was surely a defining role by Daniella Westbrook in associating Burberry with Chava/Charva culture.

As it happens, this has a good source. BBC NewsItsmejudith 22:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Hardcore and Northern Charvas

In the north, charvas almost exclusively play Happy Hardcore and New Monkey on the speakers of their mobiles and through their car stereos, R&B and rap is more symptomatic of Southern charvs.

[edit] "Chavs are often racist"

I removed this statement as it's unjust, of all these so called "chavs" I have known none of them have been exclusively racist.

Agreed. We should try and avoid sweeping statements such as this wherever possible. -- Roleplayer 17:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

but you are basicaly describing the black ethnicity, althogh all african americans arent like that most are, including some of the rappers. my brother happens to fit into every trait that was describing chavs exept unintellegent, he is the first person to actually have finished college in my family. what does that make us, we arent chavs. i no for a fact that im goth, my cousin is emo, on websites that ive been on i see things about killing chavs all the time and never cared what they are. but it apears to be singling out a single race as chavs. i have three gold earings in my ear, a gold ring on my finger, and a gold necklace every day, and have no respect for society because of the way that they treat me, does that make me a chav. its just assinine to single someone out like that for nothing, there was a discussion farther up about white trash vs chavs. chavs seem to be hated so much that they are losing to the real trash. white trash has no respect for society, and even seems to be racist at times, but there was never a big thing made about it.

[edit] Staffordshire Bull Terriers

Seems that this article has missed one of the great identifiers of being a Chav - certainly in the South East of England. Not every Chav has a dog, but where they do, it is ALWAYS a Staffy.

[edit] Word origin?

I was always under the impression that "chav" is "chaff," as "spiv" is "spiff." Now spiff relates to male pride in dress, but chaff literally means "waste." It was a term used for parts of harvested wheat disposed of, and also meant "shit." In fact, Martin Luther used the term meaning shit in the speech he made gloating about the slaughter of peasants by the princes during the Peasant Wars, "The heads of the peasants are full of chaff." That would work, especially with the origin of the word "chav" as an insult.JBDay 19:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cañí is not chav

144.32.60.229 22:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)According to the Real Academia Española de la Lengua (www.rae.es), cañí is an adjective meaning "belonging to the gypsy race". It is not of common use. As a matter of fact, one rarely hears it except in the phrase "la España cañí", referring to folkloric Spain. However, even when cañí refers to gypsies, it cannot be translated as chav, since Spanish gypsies and chavs have absolutely nothing in common.
Though there are people in Spain who certainly share the chav aesthetic, I am not aware that there is a Spanish translation of chav. Probably, the urban tribe sharing most of the chavs' attributes are the so-called bakalas: track suits, short skirts, bling, aggressive dogs, caps, (generally fake) brands etc. 144.32.60.229 22:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It's not fair to tar all teens with the same brush

If you have read the whole of the chav article for wikipedia, you may be thinking that it sounds like a typical teenager, always drinking, always terrorizing, going 150 mph down a 30mph primary school area, attacking vunerable people but in reality only around 30% of teens actually do that, the other 70% will rather just want to have fun in life but because of these "chavs" all of us teens are viewed as delinquits and dangerous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.201.191 (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chav is an acronym

Council Housed And Violent becasue that is how they are regarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.8.250 (talk) 02:31, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Ingnorance and classism of the highest order! Dudley Moore was from a council house and so was Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and George (violent) Harrison! Ever seen an Officer from Public School and Sandhurst kick the living daylights out of an innocent man in Northern Ireland? I have, the perverted upper class bastard was cumming in his knickers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.223.187 (talk) 10:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm from a council House (flat to be precise) but I'm not a chav. I don't think the backronym is in anyway ignorant or classist, nor do I find it offensive. I doubt any of the people listed in this post would find the word chav offensive, being as they're not chavs anyway. Kinda missing the point about the Officer in relation to chav, but I'm working class, what would I know. Katiepotatie 14:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Please don't carry on the conversation any further here as it is not about improvements to the article. Thanks. Itsmejudith 15:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Charv/Charver - Male

This article seems to state that 'charv' or 'charver' (i.e. the Northern/North East term) is only used for male charvers? I live in Newcastle and in my experience this is just downright untrue. Anyone have an objection to it being changed? Katwin 15:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

No objections my end, I'm from Newcastle and 'charver' applied to both genders - will change if no objections? BNC85 17:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Have changed accordingly - didn't notice that someone had actually made the 'charver' gender specific. This is indeed untrue, especially in Newcastle and the North East BNC85 17:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barry Boy

Seems to be a term synonymous with chav in describing a type of person or behaviour which is on the one hand aspirational yet on the other lacks any taste or intelligence (according to the definition). And of course is openly mocked. Cars seem to be an integral part, see: urban dictionary & Over 57,000 photos of shit looking cars! Hakluyt bean (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

I saw a chav today and took some pictures of him. He didn't wear Burberry, but it should be better than an artistic rendition. SteveSims (talk) 22:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Chav001.jpg
Chav002.jpg
Chav003.jpg
Ah, but what if the guy was just pretending to be a chav? Itsmejudith (talk) 22:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
No, he's a real chav. He wasn't parodying anyone or anything. He was at a political protest that had nothing to do with chavs so he had no reason to parody them. SteveSims (talk) 22:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
No source for him being a chav though and I doubt whether he would approve of the label, so it has to go back to the cartoon. I would miss the cartoon chav too. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:52, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Great Picture, but I'm afraid I have to concur that we can't be sure this is a chav. (Unless you have footage of antisocial behaviour, documentary evidence of benefit claims or DNA proof of paternity of half a dozen illegitimate children;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scruffy brit (talk • contribs) 13:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)