Talk:Charudes
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Norse history and culture, a WikiProject related to all activities of the Norse people, both in Scandinavia and abroad, prior to the formation of the Kalmar Union in 1397. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. | |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. | |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. | |
Anyone got an etymology for this? It probably is not "the hard men" or "the tough guys" because if the Horder are the Charudes, we have to account for the presence of the u, which was never there in the etymology of "hard."
[edit] Citations
"Whether the Horder arrived in Norway in more remote prehistoric times or intruded there in the age of Germanic migrations, the name goes on to acquire a conspicuous pedigree. As an ethnic name it changes to Hardingar, which also becomes a family name, Harding. In the 9th century, King Harding rules over the independent kingdom of Hardanger. Vikings depart from there to the Danelaw in Anglo-Saxon Britain via Scotland. Their Anglo-Saxon name is Heardingas. From Hardanger they also sail to Iceland, where they became the Haddings. In German mythology, the name is Hartung. And finally, the name comes into the modern English-speaking world as Harding."
I believe the whole section above is out of place without citations. Slight resemblance between names does not mean they share a common background.St12357 (talk) 10:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- Whether or not they are the Charudes, the Hörðar whose name is preserved in 'Hordaland' probably get their name from Proto-Germanic *haruðo:z, which has been etymologized as 'warriors, heroes'; this is from Jørn Sandnes & Ola Stemshaug, Norsk Stadnamnleksikon, 4th edn., Det Norske Samlaget, Oslo, 1997, s.n. Hordaland, citing C.J.S. Marstrander, Rosselandsteinen (Universitetet i Bergen. Årbok. Hist.-ant. rekke, Nr. 3, 1952), Bergen 1951, s. 41-42. The Etymology section of the article offers another reasonable possibility, possibly supported by more recent research. Sandnes & Stemshaug s.n. Hardanger say that O. Rygh, M. Olsen, A. Noreen, O. Skulerud, and V. Jansson derived 'Hardanger' from the same source, the failure of u-umlaut being explained by early transfer of the stress to the second element (Old Norse -angr 'bay, fjord'), but that more recently P. Hovda (Maal og Minne 1955, pp. 126-30) has rejected this explanation and derived the first element of the place-name from ON harðr 'hard', a derivation accepted by Ø. Frøysadal (Namn og nemne 1992-93, pp. 41-43). At best, therefore, a connection between the first elements of 'Hordaland' and 'Hardanger' is unproven. In Old Icelandic the people of Hardanger (OIc Harðangr) were Harðengir (Cleasby & Vigfusson, Icelandic-English Dictionary s.v. harðr), not Hardingar or Harðingar. The Haddings are OIc Haddingjar, a name related to OIc haddr 'long hair (of a woman)'; this is from PGmc. *hazdaz and hence not related to *haruðo:z or to the 'hard' word (< PGmc. *harðu-). I've therefore deleted the whole paragraph.Talan Gwynek (talk) 01:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
