Talk:Charlie Crist

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    Archive 1

    Contents

    [edit] Bar Exam Information

    Cut from article:

    Crist's qualifications to be attorney general were challenged during the 2002 election, when it was revealed that he had failed the state bar exam three times before passing. [1] The attorney general, often described as the state's "top lawyer," is required by the state constitution to have passed the bar.

    Shouldn't we say WHO challenged his qualifications? And what's this about "it was revealed"? Had he been hiding his 3 failures or lying about it? The text I cut makes it sound like he had been masquerading as a competent lawyer when (surprise!) we all found out that he really was a failure. A hasty read might even mislead you into thinking that, required to have passed the bar (but revealed to have failed it), he cheated and defrauded the voters!

    If that's a POV someone wants described in the article fine, but please source it. I bet this point of view comes from one of his opponents. Anyone got time to google it? --Uncle Ed 13:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

    The other candidates in the race (one Republican candidate in particular, I recall), challenged his qualifications on this basis. The user wrote that "it was revealed" because bar exam scores are not public knowledge, and when this was reported, it was new information that would not normally be public. The last sentence, about the constitutional requirement to pass the bar, made it relevant to the race and makes it relevant here. I agree, though, that source information would be useful. Someone should find the SPTimes article (or other Florida paper) and reinsert the sentence as it was before, with the sourcing added. Would that satisfy Uncle Ed's objections? 202.156.6.54 11:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Deputy Secretary Appointment

    There is an odd sentence in the background which indicates that Governor Jeb Bush "appointed" Charlie Crist as Deputy Secretary of a state agency. That does not sound right. I believe Secretaries of agencies appoint deputy secretaries....not governors. It could certainly be true that the Governor ordered one of his Secretaries that serve "at his pleasure" to hire Charlie Crist...or this sentence could be an attempt to show much-sought-after support of Jeb Bush for Charlie Crist. Wouldn't it be organizationally dangerous for an agency secretary not to hire the deputy secretaries working under him or her???

    It says "Crist is a signatory to the gay marriage amendment petition in Florida." Is that the amendment supporting gay marriage or the amendment against it ("Defense of Marriage Amendment")? --Pygmalion

    Can someone please look at this point? Crist's website says he's against marital benefits for gays but is for legally binding contracts?

    [edit] 2006 Race

    Might want to add in that there are currently several outstanding accusations that Crist is/was a long time lover of Bruce Carlton Jordan, a man serving parole until 2011 for fraud/theft. ----

    If there are reliable sources for it from a reliable source, which means not a blog, then maybe we can insert it. Captainktainer * Talk 21:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Gay?

    Perhaps someone should add something about the allegations that Charlie Crist is gay?

    —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanojyaku (talk • contribs)

    I added the charges and denial. Arbusto 05:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

    Not quite sure I would call them "charges" -- makes same sex desire sound like a bad thing. 24.250.234.251 23:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

    Many people think is is a bad thing. But besides that point, it is a charge if he's lying about it not being true. In other words, it's a charge of dishonesty. Personally, I think it's rubbish, and should be removed from the article, however.--216.199.161.66 23:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
    Why should it be removed? A gay governor would certainly be notable. The existence of this controversy is verifiable per reliable sources. Interestingstuffadder 21:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
    There appears to be only one source in the three references linked. The politics1 link is simply a link to the Broward/Palm Beach New Times piece, and the New York Blade quotes Max Linn, who, like the anonymous source quoted by the New Times, is a former Republican-turned-independent who just happened to be running for Lieutenant Governor as a Reform Party candidate, opposite Charlie Christ and Jeff Kottkamp. (The New Times says the source "is not active in Democratic Party politics", which is technically true, but exceptionally deceitful, if he was in fact Max Linn.) And for what it's worth, the New Times author also outed Mark Foley in 2004, and is on a crusade to out gay Republicans (as he states in the linked piece).
    Horologium talk - contrib 03:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

    Is that all you care about "gay people"? Who cares if he's gay. 76.110.82.251 01:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

    Well, for what it's worth, it pretty much excludes him from being McCain's running mate, which makes it pretty mentionable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.83.161.143 (talk) 16:01, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

    He looks the part. But I don't believe we should add that to an encyclopedic article unless he either comes out on his own and/or is "outed". WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 19:48, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
    At the very least, it's an urban legend that keeps popping up. Do a Google search and you'll find literally hundreds of articles and blog posts on this. Most aren't particularly substansive, but its existence as an oft-repeated rumour can't be ignored. I'd argue in favor of mentioning it here, since there will probably be plenty of people looking up this article to find out the details about his sexuality. Although it would be best to emphasize that it's little more than a rumour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.144.130.75 (talk) 19:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

    Granted there are going to be rumors about any good-looking, single male politicians, but the rumors about him being gay might very well cost him the VP nomination. The fact that it is widespread rumor deserves mention at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.236.143 (talk) 00:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] NPOV !??

    This article would certainly be a credit to any staff supporting a Crist campaign. However, it is an embarrassing discredit to Wikipedia. I hope an editor with more ability to defend himself than I will dispute NPOV on this one. Quickly.

    Ryvr 01:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

    I would like to be more specific with my concerns. I hope others join the discussion on this.
    The tone, with language like "During his time in office, Crist has been applauded by civil rights and consumer groups ..." sounds very much like campaign material... "Crist had by that time already won the attorney general's position." again ... "won" not "elected" the word choice in many, many sentences consistently uses a word which "glows" far more than a NPOV-reasonable word would.
    "Crist's fundraising activities were not immune to controversy." When the article addresses possible criticism it uses weak language in contrast to the enthusiastic language used to describe what are perceived as his positive qualities.
    'Is "pro-life and pro-family," however, he has no plans to change abortion law in the state of Florida ... ' Sounds great, doesn't it?
    "Crist's website says Crist strongly supports Florida's Defense of Marriage Act which is generally opposed by gays and lesbians." Uh, and were Jim Crow laws "generally opposed" by African Americans? Opinions on civil rights are not normally limited to the group against which discrimination occurs. I would think "strongly opposes equal marriage rights" would be quite accurate.
    "Right to Die: Promote the availability of end of life choices, including living wills and coordination with hospice care." This sounds fishy and sneaky. I think it is only mentioning the very positive interpretation of a political position here. Great for a campaign brochure!
    Anyway, I am personally indeed a liberal. Which gives me very careful pause to dispute NPOV here. But I do think my judgment in this case is unclouded by my personal opinions. I want the opinions of others too. Perhaps we can find an article which glows and glows toward a liberal politician and make that fair too.
    Please, please discuss!
    Ryvr 19:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
    I have put an NPOV "check" request on specificly for violation of "fairness of tone" NPOV policy. See my comments above for examples.
    Ryvr 20:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Deletion of Personal Life section

    While I was not the one who removed it, and am a bit troubled by the fact that it was by someone who has never edited here before, I support the deletion. As I pointed out above, there were some sourcing issues with it, and the section about his new girlfriend appeared to be nothing more than a weak attempt at a rebuttal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Horologium (talk • contribs) 21:59, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

    I noticed the insertion of the "new girlfriend" and thought it seemed a bit excessive, but I let it go. I didn't read the previous paragraph...which now seems irrelevant considering his governorship. I think your decision to remove the whole paragraph was a good one. Cary Bass demandez 22:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
    It was all over the news the other day, and if we get to talk about him and his male love interests, why can't we talk about him and his female love interests? I'm okay either keeping everything or deleting everything but let's be consistent. Philwelch 17:09, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
    I undid the removal because it was removed by someone who never had done any prior editing and without any discussion... that just doesn't sit right with me. While I don't agree or think the section should be in there, i'm not going let it be deleted without a discussion. --Napnet 06:25, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
    WP:BLP necessitates that unsourced or unreliably-sourced information of this nature must be "immediately" deleted. JGHowes talk - 14:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Vote requested: Restore/Keep off - "Controversies while Governor" section

    An editor removed the new section below saying in his/her opinion that it was not really a controversy. See June 26, 2007 for how the new section and references appeared in the article (the source code here also contains the references). Please vote below to Restore or Keep off this new section. 5Q5 18:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

    Controversies while Governor

    On May 24, 2007, Governor Crist signed "Senate Bill 1372: Relating to Agriculure & Consumer Services." The new law included a provision that protected the interests of fireworks merchants in the state by prohibiting Florida cities and counties from enacting any new local laws affecting the sale or use of fireworks until a task force study could be completed of the state's fireworks laws in 2008.[2][3] The governor signed the bill over the objection of the Florida Fire Chiefs' Association, which had wanted to retain the option of local goverments being able to temporarily ban the sale and use of fireworks during emergencies.[4] Said one Fire Chief in whose drought-stricken Florida county a temporary ban was effectively nullified: "We lost the power to do this. We were overruled by the state. The fireworks lobby is more powerful than local governments."[5]

    Restore. The Governor took a power away from local governments to protect their citizens and instead he protected big business. At least four counties, Palm Beach, Charlotte, Alachua, and Hernando were affected when they lost their emergency fireworks bans (might be more, did a quick search). I am sure the people in those counties consider this action by the governor controversial and alarming. His signature on the bill affected every city and county in the state. 5Q5 18:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

    Keep Off I don't think this really has any value for an encyclopedic article which was why i removed it. i tried to move it to the talk section but my mobile phone wasn't cooperating. To me it is similar to the gay issue... also, what law is passed that isn't controversial? are they all going to be added into this section? i just don't think this has garnered enough 'press' to be considered controversial (this was the first and only place i have heard about it and i am in tallahassee). anyways just my opinion. --Napnet 05:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
    Of course controversies should be included. Wikipedia is supposed to be a balanced NPOV source of information, not a censored, sanitized version of a politician's life. The article should be neutral, but include warts and all. We can get the sanitized press release version on the politician's website. Wikipedia should be a more complete view. I plan to reintroduce this section, but I welcome any comments before I do so.--MiamiManny (talk) 02:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
    There is no reason that criticisms can't be included as long as they cite reliable sources and are not written from a biased perspective. I have removed some content in the past but only because it was uncited.Athene cunicularia (talk) 04:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Convicted Felons

    I deleted the section on convicted felon voting rights, as it was a clear violation of NPOV. Use of term 'pander' shows the person who added it had an axe to grind, and also couldn't be bothered to spell Gov. Crist's name correctly. Schoop (talk) 15:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Crist's Connection to Zimmerman Scandal

    Al Zimmerman is the recently charged Florida DCF press secretary who offered teenage boys alcohol and money to pose nude for porn videos. In addition to working in the Crist administration, Zimmerman actually listed Crist on his resume as a personal reference. According to the Tallahassee Democrat, "Zimmerman listed Gov. Charlie Crist as a reference when he applied at DCF in 2005. Crist, attorney general at the time, said he knew Zimmerman slightly as a TV reporter in the Tampa Bay area and probably recommended him —as he'd do for almost anyone."[1] Crist's connection to this nationally publicized scandal is deserving of mention. I am rather surprised that the personal life section has been deleted here since the last time I visited. I plan to restore the personal life section as well as Crist's connection to the Zimmerman scandal, but I welcome the comments of others before I do so.--MiamiManny (talk) 02:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

    I would definitely support a Personal Life section on Crist, as long as it is neutral, and merely mentions only specific facts in an encyclopedic context. If any allegations about his personal life are capable of being cited, as was asserted above, and those allegations can be summarized in NPOV and without utilizing copyrighted info, then they absolutely should be in here as well, just as for any major public figure, regardless of the specifics. Even positive facts should be eligible for a Personal Life section, provided they meet notability, NPOV, and other guidelines. P.F. Bruns (talk) 07:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] He is the first Republican Florida governor to succeed a Republican Florida governor?

    I have removed that statement from the opening paragraph, as, according to the following page, it is not true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Florida Mmortal03 (talk) 15:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

    But it /is/ true that he is the first Republican /elected/ to succeed a Republican (the other cases are Lieutenant governors who succeeded a governor who died in office.) It's noteworthy enough to include a corrected version in the article. --Heath 128.173.146.4 (talk) 18:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] name pronounciation

    How is his name pronounced? (And obviously it should be added to the lede) Is it like "Christ" or "Crisp"? --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)