Talk:Charisma

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[edit] Pseudo science and original research

This article needs to be severely cleaned up. There is little objectivity or NPOV in this writing, and the "sources" cited (especially, among others, BBC News and Thesaurus.com) are completely insufficient. It nearly qualifies as original research, and certainly qualifies as pseudo science. 69.149.104.152 04:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References?

Can someone find some references to attribute this sentence? It now reads as an assertion if fact and WP:NOR. Unless this sentence is properly referenced and attributed, I will remove it in a a week or so. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 21:38, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

The study, recognition, and development of charisma in individuals is of particular interest to sociologists/psychologists, popular politicians, public speakers, movie-stars/movie-producers, casting directors, pop-music stars, trainers/coaches targeting the upper-echelons of the business community (CEOs), and academics or others involved in leadership studies or leadership development. In some cases highly-extroverted and brutally controlling charismatic people/leaders can invoke envy and/or hatred among those that do not possess "It," and indeed many cult leaders or leaders in general (Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones) have wrongfully used their personal charisma in extremely destructive and damaging ways throughout human history.
  • I think it's just common knowledge Pictureuploader 21:41, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
  • WHO gets to decide if something is POV original research vs. plain common knowledge? Wikipedia becomes more and more fascist every day it seems... --64.12.116.203 03:45, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
    • Personally I think the matter of sources/references must be brought into attention as soon as someone finds a certain phrase or paragraph wrong, illogical, mentions something never heard before (like that John Seigenthaler participated in Kennedy's assassination), or challenges his views and experiences. The abovementioned paragraph is perfectly logical to me, and I don't think it would fall in any of such categories or that anyone disagree with or be unaware of what it says. That makes it common sense at least as far as i understand it with my average IQ. Pictureuploader 14:44, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Part of the sentence was attributed and references and the second part changed slightly to accomodate WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. To be rigorous in applying WP policies is not facism. It is the correct thing to do when people want to use Wikipedia for something it is not. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 15:53, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewriting...

I removed the term wrongful. While I would certainly say mass suicide, genocide, and war are wrong, a member of the people's church, a nazi, and a nationalist would likely disagree with me. For better or for worse, we live in a universe with no universal morality, so no act can be said to be 'wrong'. I made the edit before I checked the talk page. If you really, very strongly want to revert it, do so and I won't change it back. --Irongaard 15:15, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Your edit makes PERFECT sense; thanks for the sharp eye(s) and keep up the good editing. --64.12.116.196 05:57, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

If CBT can help people with Social Anxiety, then it makes sense that it could turn a normal person into a Charismatic person. I wonder what would be the effects of Prozac, Klonopin, and CBT on a person who did not have SAD. I did hear on some TV show that JFK had a doctor prescribe him some mind altering drug but I can't remember what it was.

the caption under the hitler photo is POV, it assumes the holocaust was a bad thing and that hitler was a bad guy. i heard wikipedia was podantically un-biased, i guess it aint.

You heard that Wikipedia was "footantically" un-biased, eh? :P (I think you meant "pedantically", right?). Runa27 22:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I think the images could use a little more international flavor. Two images -- both are (dead) American figures. Let's widen the perspective a little.--WilliamThweatt 02:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

According to that, and since we already have Hitler's image (a politican), I removed Kennedy and added an image of Jesus. Now we shoiw indications for 3 types of charisma: religious and spiritual leader, media and politics. If you think inappropriate to delete Kennedy and letting Hitler stay, you can proceed accordingly. Pictureuploader 08:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I think Hitler is an even better example of charisma, because he had to have had a LOT to be able to manipulate all those people at once. Plus, he's an international figure (well, was). But either works, as both were politicians famous for their charisma. Runa27 22:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] list of charismatic famous people?

Shall we?

  Hitler, John Nash, Zhou Enlai, Jesus etc

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.226.162.157 (talk) 19:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

This is already done: see List of charismatic leaders and Category:Charismatic religious leaders. --WassermannNYC 03:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The "Further reading" list, flurry of page improvement(s), etc.

As you all can see, I've been adding a TON of books to this list. I am currently researching material for a book related to this topic, particularly in regards to 'charismatic' literary figures such as Hamlet, Heathcliff, Captain Ahab, Kurtz, and so forth. I know that this list getting a bit out of hand, but I figure since the concept/term of "charisma" is so incredibly difficult to define/grasp, these references can be used by people to try and further understand the phenomenon. So, in short, I'm building this list (mostly) for my own research in the coming months and years, but also for the benefit of the whole world (because Wikipedia = FREE KNOWLEDGE!). Anyone and everyone: please feel free to add to and update this list, improve the article, and/or copyedit the list (check ISBN numbers, spelling, punctuation, author names, and so forth). Thanks! --WassermannNYC 16:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

By the way -- I've done my best to avoid adding the (mostly junky) 'self help' (or 'how to') books that supposedly teach people "how to be more charismatic," "how to increase their personal magnetism," or how to "increase their earning potential with charisma," and other books along those (commercial) lines. If someone wishes to add them I have no objections (trust me though: they are junk), but just to let people know that most of these types of books are not scholarly in the least and were/are written more to turn a profit rather than to seriously inform (they are also full of platitude after platitude). In the interests of serious research, I've done my best to add scholarly works from reputable presses to the reference list. Also, I've added a few (academic) German books on charisma because I can read German (as long as it isn't too complicated); admins: is that a problem? Studying charisma and charismatic individuals seems to be a popular topic in German academia, as there are many more books in German on the topic that I haven't added (yet). I might get around to that later (if this is allowed -- admins: is one allowed to add foreign language books to these types of lists?). --WassermannNYC 16:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

does it help if i tell you i am a charismatics fellow?

All I have to say to you this is...prove it! "Charisma" is apparently difficult to impossible to prove because (1) there is no agreed-on definition as to what the concept actually means; and (2) there are no tests that one can undergo in order to 'prove' that they are charismatic. Apparently it is all "intuitive," whatever that is supposed to mean.
By the way -- a VERY strange "coincidence" happened earlier, one might best call it "synchronicity." I went outside to take a Wiki-break (I needed it; just look at my edit count for today!) while I was making the flurry of edits to this article and others dealing with charisma earlier; this was a few hours ago. I usually (almost always) switch on the radio when I go outside, and that is exactly what I did this time, as usual. So I switch on the radio, and the first utterance I hear (strangely enough!) is someone saying that "salamanders are charismatic predators" [paraphrasing] -- NO LIE!
It was NPR's "Talk of the Nation - Science Friday" program that this phrase was uttered on, and because I went outside at that exact moment I managed to hear it. It was so delightfully strange [even eerie to an extent]...I mean, how many times in a lifetime does one hear the phrase "salamanders are charismatic predators" on the same day (and at the same time!) that one is making a flurry of edits about charisma and the many other topics related to it? IT WAS SO BEAUTIFULLY ODD! They were talking about salamanders hunting earthworms or something of the sort (it's this program; it was toward the very end I think) -- but like I said, it was exceptionally weird because the "salamander phrase" was the first sentence I heard right when I switched the radio on, right after I had left my computer as I was editing a charisma-related article! What are the chances of that! A strange orb we're living on, for sure... --WassermannNYC 23:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
NOTE: the exact words of this scientist (he seemed rather nervous): "[Salamanders]...who are actually a very charismatic predator in [sic] the forest floor" (~13:00-13:30 : [1]). LOL! OK-OK: I'll stop taking up extra memory on Wikipedia now... --WassermannNYC 23:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

John Nash:

John Nash was a mathematician and economist who developed the ‘Nash equilibrium’ concept in his doctoral dissertation in Princeton in 1949. Nash also proposed a solution to cooperative games. He shared in 1994 Nobel Prize in Economics with two other game theorists, Reinhard Selten and John Harsany.

A ´Nash equilibrium´ in a game is a list of strategies one for each player, such that no player can get a better payoff by switching to some other strategy that is available, while all the other players adhere to the strategies specified for them in the list. This concepts is mostly used by assigning various payoffs in the quadrants of the matrices for each player. Thus the higher payoffs represent the dominant strategy option.

This economic theory caused a revolution within the game theorist. Its applicability to many other areas such as psychology, sociology and political science made his theories very well re-known.

The amazing aspect of this leading Economist is not his charisma or social skills, but rather his analytic ability while suffering from schizophrenia. He was diagnosed in 1958, and later become paranoid for which he has to be hospitalized for a month in 1959. The final diagnosis was that he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, depression and low self-esteem.

Thanks to John Nash, today we can apply his theories to different analytic levels: from simple cases of human behaviour to theories of public choice and use of multiple strategies.

[edit] Roosevelt

Franklin D. Roosevelt was said to have been quite the charmer in his time. Mainly in the way he talked and ability to make people listen to him, some examples can be seen in sources of him on television and radio. It's said that though Hitler himself was a great person of charm, Roosevelt was the same, however not to the levels of the dictator. Roosevelt was the greater man and applied it with good terms, unlike Hitler. Also I heard how Adolf was the first to use a plane to travel while promoting himself politically, as with adoption of surrounding the area of where he talked with speakers. Maybe this would have contributed to the alluring of Hitler to the German people?

All this information is from the top of my head, and I'd have no idea where to retrieve the sources in relation to it. Thankss Aeryck89 18:15, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mystique

Mystique is merged with this article. Doesn't mystique warrant it's own entry? --Endlessdan 18:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Charisma Power

There is also a website CharismaPower www.charismapower.com in which a lot of information is there about Charisma.

I have visited this website www.charismapower.com Here they have said that charisma is based on FOUR Elements, 1. Social Skills 2. Manners & Etiquettes 3. Fashion & Grooming 4. Health Care

This is very Strange Website, also it is completely FREE.

There is a HUGE HUGE Information about CHARISMA.

I think that www.charismapower.com is the BIGGEST Source of CHARISMA online. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.103.13.170 (talk) 20:48, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rare?

Let me preface with the fact that I am no expert on this subject. It strikes me as odd to say that charisma is 'rare'. I always considered it a quality along a spectrum, e.g., a person is more or less charismatic, not charismatic or not (where high levels of charisma are certainly rare). Am I mistaken, or is this another view needing further consideration or citation? B.S. Lawrence (talk) 18:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)