Talk:Characters of The Keys to the Kingdom

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[edit] Saturday's Noon and Dusk

I have made a lot of changes to this section. I removed many things, mostly what someone said about servants of Dawns Noons and Dusks, and added some information. There is an obvious problem with the characters, as their names are often used interchangebly. I have moved all things that might be in contention to the "Section Beneath Saturdays Dusk", as described in the aricle. I made some hidden comments. I have checked all of my statements against several major appearences of the two; being the beginning and towards the end of Grim Tuesday,the fight and statements by Suzy in Sir Thursday, and the attack on the Foil Mill of the Guild of Gilding and Illumination and the Scriptorium scene in Lady Friday, if anyone wanted to check me. (I feel this compulsion to explain all of my edits. Bear with me =]) Alcemáe 08:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Friday

It states in the article that fridays sin is lust, as she lusts for experiences, however could it not be envy, for humans who have experiences, as she states something to leaf that would imply this after experiencing, this would leave lust for sunday which could explain why he left his position.

I would definitely say that, at best, unequivocably confirming Friday as the embodiment of lust in this article is a bit strong, unless there is some official source I am unaware of. While this would take envy from Saturday, Saturday seems to have very strong parallels with Lucifer, who is associated strongly with the sin of pride.139.102.254.37 (talk) 03:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


I put my vote to change it to envy it seems right to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonfirered94 (talk • contribs) 20:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Title of article

Would it be ok to move the article to a new title? I think Characters of the Keys to the Kingdom sounds odd. Maybe Characters in the Keys to the Kingdom Series? If not, I'm going to move it at least to Characters of 'the Keys to the Kingdom, because unless the the is capitalized, it's a red link. Alcemáe T • C 04:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Precedence in the House

I always assumed that the Architect was #1, then Sunday, Saturday, Friday, Thursday, and Arthur at the beginning of the fourth book, which makes him #6. In other words, he's now #4. Does that make sense?

72.135.18.80 16:02, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's ambiguous. If the Architect was ranked, then the numbers would make sense. But it's never stated who was #1. If only Nix wrote faster, we would know ;) I  (said) (did) 20:05, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Got it. I guess that makes sense. He does take a long time...72.135.18.80 20:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Sunday's Noon could be 2 because Garth Nix didn't state who was 1,2,3 and 4 either.--Zzz sleeping 08:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

But, Where would Dame Primus be under all this? As being the embodiemnt to all knowledge I would imagine that she is pretty high up there, of noy above where arthur is in Sir Thursday.1+1=3 04:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by The chamark (talk • contribs)

My assumption would be that the Architect is no longer ranked, as she is gone from the house completely. She may also have never been ranked, being above and beyond any form of precedence. I feel fairly certain that any given Day would outrank any noon, dawn or dusk, except perhaps when dealing with Sunday or Saturday's minions versus Mister Monday. What seems to me the trickiest question is whether Arthur might actually already be first or second in precedence due to his holding of multiple titles versus Saturday and Sunday's one apiece.139.102.254.37 (talk) 03:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Commander-in-Chief

I would like to point out that Sir Thursday was not the Commander-in-Chief. It was explicitly stated by Thursday himself. If Thursday was not in-Chief, then Arthur is not either. I  (said) (did) 11:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The rules that the Morrow Days have set out for each other are nothing more than an agreement. They have no real rights since they disobeyed the Will of the Architect, so they banded together - their agreement is mentioned several times throughout the books. As Arthur did not take part in this agreement, he is not bound by it and thus doesn't need to obey Saturday or Sunday. It's only due to the Agreement that Thursday wasn't the commander-in-chief.
Thursday may had the right to be commander-in-chief, but either chose not to or was forced by Saturday or Sunday - he states "Even though I command the Glorious Army of the House, I am not the ultimate commander-in-chief. The Architect was, and when she disappeared I was convinced that Lord Sunday had the proper authority to assume this role, with Superior Saturday as his deputy." He goes on to explain that he was ordered to take part in the breaking of the will, though he didn't mention whether or not he approved of this. Thus, the position of commander-in-chief of the Army may have nothing to do with the agreement of the trustees, and Arthur can assume it without breaking the agreement that prevented the Morrow Days attacking (at least physically, Grim Tuesday is an example of what they could do to each other while obeying the laws of their agreement). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.247.198 (talk • contribs)
This is where it gets ambiguous. Were the Trustees in charge of their respective demesnes before the Architect left, or only after? It is irrelevant to this discussion, however. Thursday was given the rights to the Great Maze under the Will. However, he was not given title of Commander in Chief, that still resided with the Architect. So the fact that the Trustees broke the Will has nothing to do with the title, as it was never transferred. Thus, Arthur is still not Commander in Chief. i said 02:56, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title of the page.

I think that '"characters of the keys to the kingdom"' is not the right title for this page, as it does not just focus on the characters, it has a wide range of info on all the series.

I thought a better title would be something like '"An insight to the keys to the kingdom series"'

Apart from that, I thought this page was excellent!!!!!

Bioclaw —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bioclaw (talk • contribs) 03:37, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, this page is about the Characters, and to accurately and comprehensively discuss them, we must discuss the story. So really, it about the characters. In addition, an insight page would be original research. — i said 03:57, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Dame Primas

could dame be the Architect because with each part of the will she gets stronger maybe any body got any suggestions —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonfirered94 (talk • contribs) 12:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it. However, this is not the correct place to discuss this. Sorry. I (talk) 22:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arthur's Title after Lady Friday

I'm curious, but is there a reliable source that claims that Arthur is "Lord of the Middle House" rather than "Master of the Middle House" (based on his title after he claimed the Lower House). Janus8463 (talk) 21:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

There is not. I think for a while we just left it without a specific title, and someone added something and nobody caught it. I don't think there should be any capitalized title in front of Middle House, including Master. I would just leave it out of the title, and make note that there is no specific title for the MH granted. seresin | wasn't he just...? 04:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sylvie/Sylvia

I've noticed that in Sir Thursday her name starts off being Sylvia but then changes to Sylvie. I'm not sure if this was a typo in the book. Therefore I am not sure what to do about her name. She is currently called Sylvie in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.176.161 (talk) 16:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Start class

Certainly not B there is absolutely no referencing or anything verifiable from 3rd party sources. 09:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)