Talk:Character class (Dungeons & Dragons)

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Contents 1 NPC classes 2 Side Bar 3 Further Additions 4 Noble and Mystic Deletion 5 Actual Class Details? 6 Note about gender pronouns 7 Merger 8 Standardization

[edit] NPC classes

What about the five NPC classes? — Daniel 00:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Added --Laxrulz777 18:53, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Side Bar

How do you edit the sidebar so that the Tome of Battle classes can be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laxrulz777 (talk • contribs)

Figured it out... For anyone interested it's a template to be edited. The {{}} give it away and you edit it by putting template: in front of it in the URL. --Laxrulz777 18:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Further Additions

It'd be great if we could get some blurbs about the remaining core classes as well as somebody archiving the prestige classes.

Also, I'm trying to seek clarification on the naming convention. For right now I'm tacking (Dungeons & Dragons) onto the end of these pages. I understand that that may not be acceptable but it's easier in the short term. If anyone has any thoughts, feel free to goto the Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions and chime in.

--Laxrulz777 19:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to add the common 3-letter acronyms to the class list. This doesn't seem to be in any of the D&D books, though it's often used on a class-by-class basis. If it is used, perhaps a reference to the publication could be included instead, as it is obviously hard to find.

--Misfit815 15:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noble and Mystic Deletion

Sorry for deleting those but I'm not familiar what 3.5 edition book they're from. To the best of my knowledge Mystic is from basic D&D master edition and noble is the same as the NPC class aristocrat... am I missing something? --Laxrulz777 20:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Dragonlance Campaign Setting --Starman IX

[edit] Actual Class Details?

For the classes that are considered to be open content, should we add their information to the pages? Or should this remain a description and nothing more? Gundato

i think the reason there is so little information on this page is because there're so many classes listed here. If we were to give information for all of them, we would 1. have a very long article. 2. repeat what is already been said in all the pages which the template links to. Yaksha 14:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I was actually referring to the individual pages, I just felt it would be easier to suggest it here. Stuff like their BAB and saving throw progressions (when it isn't copyrighted). Gundato

ahh...i see what you mean. Do you mean information as in the stuff that was removed in this edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barbarian_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29&diff=75536121&oldid=74501964) of the Barbarian page?

If it is open content, then i don't see why it couldn't be on there. The person who removed it says "SRD content must be prefaced with the appropriate licenses". HOwever, it was prefaced with "This material is Open Game Content, and is licensed for public use under the terms of the Open Game License v1.0a.". So i'm not sure what the person meant. You could try asking on the person's talk page, but since that person is editing without an accout, i doubt you would get a reply. Perhaps you should just leave a note on the specific talk page (and say on your edit summary to refer to the talk page) if you decide to restore it.

However, i've always found all that information for the classes distracting and not very useful. I think someone needs to summarize all that information and write it in an encyclopedia form, instead of simply copying and pasting it. For example, that list of "Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special" is utterly meaningless to anyone who is not very familiar with the D&D system.

also, stuff like "Trap Sense (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a barbarian gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 every three barbarian levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level). Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack." is also meaningless to someone not familiar with D&D. In my opinion, someone needs to re-write that as "a barbarian gains a special ability "trap sense" at the 3rd level. This ability means the barbarian is advantaged in avoiding traps and will take less damage from traps. This ability gets better as the barbarian levels...etc"

the information also doesn't always apply --> games that use the D&D system which also use its classes make sometimes makes slight changes to the classes, or the gamemaster himself can decide to make changes. So the information isn't all that useful to anyone.

although that's just my opinion. but i believe we are supposed to try and make information sound 'encyclopedic' instead of just writing out raw facts and information. Yaksha 02:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Note about gender pronouns

Just a note about the use of gender pronouns on character class articles.

I've gone and changed any gender-specific pronouns, as well as any "his/her" or "he/she" into either the plural pronoun or it (when it's just talking about the class and not about the characters in it).

The classes refer to general groups of characters anyway, so plural works fine. And it completely avoids the issue of what gender pronouns to use. Since i've noticed these articles are rather inconsistent with it, as well as with when to use plural and when to use singular. Better to just have the whole lot the same. --Yaksha 10:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The articles are inconsistent, I think, because the latest source material is. Wizards started using mixed-gender pronouns in 3.5 of Dungeons and Dragons, probably to get more girls to play the game (or to acknowledge that girls do play the game). Some classes and races are hes, some are shes. If memory serves, Paladin was a she. -Mance 11:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

just because they do that, it doesn't really mean we have to do it. I don't have anything against it. I just think that being a wiki, lots of people are editing these pages, it'll be really easy for the whole thing to turn into a mess. People will argue, and some people clearly do care about this, just take a look at the edit summary on this edit. All it takes is one other person who wants all the pronouns female...and boom...we have a bonfire.

I admit turning the whole lot into plurals is more of a way around the problem than truely solving it. But at least it's a fix until someone dedicated enough can come and comb through all these pages and fix it. As long as using the mixed gender pronouns is intentional, i think it can look just as 'good' as having all the articles with the same pronoun. It's just right now, it seems to be a matter of one person deciding they'll mix one way and another person deciding they'll mix in another way (and a lot of article also refer to the classes as "it"...don't quite understand why, but i'm not going to leave them as is.) --Yaksha 11:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I agree with your decision, and wasn't suggesting we should emulate the Players' Handbook, I was merely posting my idea on why the article had the gender waffling. To be honest, I think Wizards' decision wasn't a good one, because using "her" to refer to a general idea (like a character class) is quite distracting, because traditionally "he" would be used unless it was -absolutely- a female subject. -Mance 15:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll support this decision. I'm going through and doing the prestige classes, so I'll give them a quick run through now. Morgrim 01:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, i find using the traditional "he" for everything is fine too. But the fact is, other than being traditional, it isn't justified. So it becomes a problem with people start to care. --Yaksha 07:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

When you change the pronouns in a sentence, make sure the rest of the sentence makes sense. The Samurai (Dungeons & Dragons) article is a grammatical mess right now: "samurais who loses their station" is incorrect both grammatically, and in the manner of pluralization. As far as I know, japanese words in english do not receive pluralization, number is determined based on context. Such is the manner in which the Samurai article is written, so I would assume that consistency demands the same of the article for the character class. Lucky number 49 17:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

uhh...yeah...sorry about that. I tried to watch the rest of the sense when changing the pronouns, but i wasn't too sure whether all the class names could be plural-ized by adding a "s" on the end. I know Japanese words don't normally use the added "s" at the end to show plural, but even if the classes are named with japanese words...all the class names should just be treated as english names shouldn't they? Anyhow, i wasn't too sure about it. Anyhow, it's easy to fix anyway, if you can tell me which class names shouldn't have a "s" on the end for plural. --Yaksha 23:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

WP:NOT — Wikipedia articles are not: Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files

• 3. Mere collections of public domain or other source material such as entire books

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information

• 4. Instruction manuals

Placing every last class as its own article jsut because the WotC SRD allows it doesn't mean they are all needed.

WP:NN — Articles on subjects with borderline notability that still meet Wikipedia's other content policies may be merged into list articles, or into an article on a related subject

shadzar|Talk|contribs 14:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Support Percy Snoodle 15:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Partial Oppose There is no way the base character classes should be merged, although quite possibly some of the others should. Morgrim 23:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment - i agree the base classes shouldn't be merged. The barbarian, for example, is clearly a step up in notability from something like a Shugenja. Further more, i don't think merging everything into this article is such a good idea. We don't want to end up with a huge "Character class (Dungeons & Dragons)". I think 10-15 classes per article would be a more sensible number. It would mean we can get some decent-lengthed articles for the alternate base classes, but the articles won't be so huge that it will discourage people from expanding sections on individual bases. --`/aksha 02:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - Expand and elaborate each different class, D&D is a notable enough game to warrent each character class having its own page. Marcsin 01:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment—D&D may be notable, but is every character/prestige class? notable within the game, but what about to those not familiar with the game? Maybe I am misunderstanding WP poclicies. shadzar|Talk|contribs 07:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I think lumping all the D&D classes together when saying "each character class having its own page" is in itself wrong. The notability of something like Bard or Wizard is completely different from the notability of something like a Totemist, which is again nothing like the notability of Vigilante, Shining Blade of Heironeous or Dweomerkeeper (the last three all being wierd prestige classes). Let's see how discussions on the rpg project proceeds. And IIRC, there is actually a place for people to go to make contraversial merges proposals. Forget where though... --`/aksha 10:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Support Bard or Wizard deserve different entries as general terms, not as specific AD&D classes. The ammount of detailed information about the game is absurd, given the apparent purpose of Wikipedia. The entry on character classes doesn't need to list every single class, and there certainly don't need to be multiple entries for character classes.

[edit] Standardization

I've looked at the various character class articles and each and everyone is formatted differently. Some give details on changes of the classes from 1st to 3rd edition while others do not, wizard gives class skills for no explicable reason when others do not. I suggest we come up with a standard format that all the classes follow, it would make things more professional in my opinion. What does everyone think? It would be a bit of an undertaking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.206.237.220 (talk • contribs)