Talk:Chaotic: Now or Never!

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[edit] Merger proposal

Most of this article seems to be a copy of the main Chaotic article. If there are no objections I will merge the two in about 5 days and change this one to a redirect for the other. Mathman1550 (talk)

I Object! The intro and the subject titled The Original Chaotic: Now Or Never! Cards was written by me i and i refuse to have it fuse together with someone else work so they can claim it as their own. No. Were do you even get off with doing that. That isn't your work so why are you trying to fuse it with someone elses?
The subjects titled "Chaotic's Original Story Line", "Chaotic: Now Or Never! Characters", "Tom", "Kazdan", "MadCap", "Intress", "Chaor", and "Taki-nom" Were from the original website. There was a copywrite But apparently it didn't show up so i had to add it at the bottom of the page again. But everything else was written by me. So Yeah I object. -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 21:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I also object. He is right. I wouldn't want anyone trying to take creadit for my work. Don't merge it. Just leave it alone. -MadMap (talk) 22:22, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks MadMap. -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 00:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Plus I haven't even finished with it. I still have other things i haven't added yet. Who are you anyways? do you work here or something? -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 00:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia rules any editor may edit any article. You may not include origional research or copywrited material (Wikipedia:Copyrights). Please read these linked articles! Also no editor may claim a wikipedia article as their own. Anything input on wikipedia automatically is copyright of wikipedia. I will remove your copyright paragraph. If it appears again, I will report you to wikipedia. If anything you have written is copyrighted you must include a reference (for a great example of how this is done see Alien vs. Predator (film).)
It is considered polite to allow a few days (usually at least 5) for complete discussion of proposals (such as mergers) before removing the tags. I still do not see how this article is sufficiently different from the main Chaotic Article to necessitate it being a separate article. You have not given sufficient justification for this so I will add the tag again. Do not remove it until this discussion has ended. Please explain here how it is necessary to have a separate article and why it would not just be sufficient to include any additional information from this article over there. "I wrote it" is not a reason. Do not turn this into an edit war. Read the edit war article to see why what you are doing is wrong. I'm very willing to discuss the article here, just make sure you give me a couple days to respond, since I am not on this site every day of the week.Mathman1550 (talk) 15:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I am in favor of a merge. As much as I like NoN, I feel that it is unnecessary for such an article.
So I am in favor of this article being assimilated by the Chaotic or Chaotic Trading Card Game article. Worlder (talk) 21:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Good point. If it is decided that the article should be merged we would have to decide whether it should be merged into Chaotic or Chaotic Trading Card Game, or if it should be distributed among the two.Mathman1550 (talk) 00:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
I have carefully read all of this article, the Chaotic article and the Chaotic Trading Card Game article and I feel this article would best be merged as a history section of the Chaotic Trading Card Game article. I'm not doing this now though because we still have some issues to go through here in deciding whether this article has sufficient standing as an individual. From what I have read in the article, the game is dead, there are no reliable sources directly concerning the topic, and there is no notability except through Chaotic's current TCG and TV show.Mathman1550 (talk) 04:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
So What!
So what if you can't find anything about it on the internet. It doesn't exist anymore, I know, but that isn't why i posted it. I posted the topic Chaotic: Now Or Never! to preserve the memories of it. Not to be merged with someone else work. -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 22:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
When are you guys going to speak English? I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Every time you guys add a link referring to Wikipedia i get confused because I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT ANY OF IT MEANS! -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 22:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
that is why we add a link, so that you can go to those articles and read more about them. For example, I could have explained what edit war means, but most wikipedia users already know what it is and it would take a lot of time to write it all out. You can click on the link edit war and find out more about it yourself. Notice how everyone is changing back everything you have done to the page lately? Its because you are causing an edit war and we need to resolve issued here first. Mathman1550 (talk) 03:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I still do not see how this article is sufficiently different from the main Chaotic Article to necessitate it being a separate article. You have not given sufficient justification for this so I will add the tag again. Do not remove it until this discussion has ended. Please explain here how it is necessary to have a separate article and why it would not just be sufficient to include any additional information from this article over there. "I wrote it" is not a reason. Do not turn this into an edit war. Read the edit war article to see why what you are doing is wrong. I'm very willing to discuss the article here, just make sure you give me a couple days to respond, since I am not on this site every day of the week.) Mathman1550 (talk)
One - It is easier to understand.
Two - There is info in there that explains Chaotic: Now Or Never! Not what companies help make, distribute, or help participate in it.
Three - Yes I Wrote It.
Four - It is about Chaotic: Now Or Never!'s origin not what it is today. (And before you say something any part of the article i wrote referring to 4kids Entertainment & Bryan C. Gannon may sound like i am referring the Article to the New and Present Chaotic, But i am not so don't get it confused.)
Five - It is also an article that i wrote to preserve the memories of what Chaotic: Now Or Never! used to be. Before it's original design was ruined by this present version of Chaotic.(Don't get me wrong, i do love the new Chaotic. But i also loved the original and i still do, as you can tell.) -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 21:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
following your numbering
1 Then edit the other article to make more sense. (PS yours isn't any better)
2 the chaotic article is not about the companies that make Chaotic. they should have their own page and be mentioned only briefly in other pages.
3 You wrote it for wikipedia making the text property of wikipedia; and wikipedia does not allow anyone to claim wikipedia articles as their own.
4 and 5 This is more along the lines of the justification I was looking for. Please expand upon this in a new section at the bottom. If this article is justified it could be made into a good, informative article. -Mathman1550 (talk) 03:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
If you do merge it with another article will you at least do me two favors. give me credit for Writing the intro and the subjects titled: Chaotic: Now Or Never! Is Vanishing and The Original Chaotic: Now Or Never! Cards. and The 2nd favor is that you will not change a word of the intro or the two subjects above. -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 22:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not recognize ANY work contained therein as the work of an individual. If you want to post your article as it is and have it never be changed by anyone but yourself you should make your own webpage and post it there. Wikipedia will always be edited by others who are trying to edit and improve articles in good faith (see Wikipedia:GF). Also see Wikipedia:List of guidelines. Mathman1550 (talk) 03:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I know others can edit it. I meant that when you are or who ever is going to merge it, not change it until someone else does. I am just asking that when you do merge it that the original article subjects wont be changed by you or anyone who is merging the two until another person who reads it decides to change it. -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 14:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Huh?
following your numbering
1 Then edit the other article to make more sense. (PS yours isn't any better)
2 the chaotic article is not about the companies that make Chaotic. they should have their own page and be mentioned only briefly in other pages.
3 You wrote it for wikipedia making the text property of wikipedia; and wikipedia does not allow anyone to claim wikipedia articles as their own.
4 and 5 This is more along the lines of the justification I was looking for. Please expand upon this in a new section at the bottom. If this article is justified it could be made into a good, informative article.)
Look i am only 16 so i don't understand most of these big words you keep throwing out there. Can you please explain what you mean about numbers 4 - 5. -ElementalDraco218 (talk)
Your 4 and 5 are close to what I am looking for as far as a reason to keep this article separate from the others. Explain yourself more on these and we might be on our way to keeping this a separate article. Mathman1550 (talk) 22:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
P.S. What is it that you are actually saying. That just because i posted it on wikipedia that I (the one who wrote it) Has no legal rights the the article? That isn't really fare you know. Let me ask you a question and when you give me an answer (This isn't a demand it's just a statement) please use words i can understand. Please. (If someone writes an article, book, report, ect on wikipedia, then wikipedia can claim it as their own, Right? Isn't that Plagiarism? Because what you are implying states that you are claiming it as wikipedia's property and that is in a definite fact, ILLEGAL.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElementalDraco218 (talk • contribs) 15:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
By joining Wikipedia, you agreed to certain rules. One of those is that anything you enter into wikipedia becomes property of Wikipedia (see signing and especially article ownership). You agreed to those terms when you created a wikipedia account, so it's not plagiarism, since you agreed to it. If you do not agree with it, don't enter anything on Wikipedia.
As a side note: I'm surprised at how many people join various websites and do not read the terms and conditions of their becoming a member (but then there would be a lot less people joining sites if they did start reading what they are agreeing to because they wouldn't like some of it). Mathman1550 (talk) 22:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I guess you got me there. But it still isn't right.
As for the Articles purpose, As i already said before it was written to preserve the memories of Chaotic: Now Or Never! To tell people what it was and used to be.
As you and many others already know Chaotic: Now Or Never! Started out as Dracco Heads and then became Grolls & Gorks. But when ever someone mentioned those two topic or as i call them origins of Chaotic: Now Or Never! They never explain what they really are. So i decided to explain what they are and what purpose or roll they play in Chaotic: Now Or Never! TCG, Show, Ect. and as i said before i haven't finished adding more info to the article. I will be adding more info to it if it isn't merge anytime soon.
As posted in the article, Everyday there is more and more info, photo's, ect about both Dracco Heads, Grolls & Gorks, and Chaotic: Now Or Never! being removed from the internet, markets, ect. So for the past year i have tried to preserve the memories of them. All though not many people have supported me i still continue to do so. I have been a devoted fan of Chaotic: Now Or Never! For a long time. The main purpose of this article is to preserve and keep the memories of Chaotic: Now Or Never!, Grolls & Gorks, and Dracco Heads. I am a huge fan of the original Chaotic. Plus i grew up playing with Dracco Heads. Which is why i have spent so much time on doing this.
That is why i was angered when you tried to merge the article with someone else's. -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 00:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
That article isn't "someone else's" any more than this one is "yours." Wikipedia is a cooperative effort, and if you can't accept that concept that other people can and will edit your work, you're not going to get very far here. -TPIRFanSteve (talk) 04:14, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I can except that fact. Plus that isn't the point i am trying to make either. I am trying to prevent this article from being merged with some other article.
Yes i know someone will and always can edit my article but that isn't the problem. The problem that i have is someone trying to combine my article with someone elses. I just want this to stay a single article and not part of someones else's article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.2.82.138 (talk) 04:19, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
But it is the point you're trying to make. All you've done here is repeat exactly what you said before. This article is not going to stay the way you originally wrote it, and there's a fair chance it will eventually be merged into another Chaotic article simply because it would fit better there. You wanting it to remain here is not anywhere close to a good enough reason to leave it here. -TPIRFanSteve (talk) 21:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Well then lets make it a worthwile article, I see that TPIRFan has already started correcting errors, I'll make the article more wikified (meaning edited in a way Wikipedia wants) and we will see what we end up with. Mathman1550 (talk) 18:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
TPIRFanSteve, what part of my edits look unprofessional? I added a lot of wikilinks, (which really should be there), reorganized the title paragraph to read more encyclopedic, removed external links from main text and made them either references or wiki-external-links, added history section for the parts that are clearly historical. There was a lot of stuff I did to it. Please explain what parts I did were "unprofessional" so that I can reinstate the rest of my changes without you undoing it again. Mathman1550 (talk) 22:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Are you talking to me or TPIRFanSteve? -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 00:40, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Uh, I'd think that'd be quite clear from his addressing me and not you... -TPIRFanSteve (talk) 02:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
There was nothing wrong with your edits...but before you made them, ElementalDraco had undone most of the cleanup I'd done yesterday. -TPIRFanSteve (talk) 02:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
TPIRFanSteve, I know there is a possibility that it can and will be merged. I don't like it, but i know it can and possibly will happen. I also know people can and will always edit anything i post on wikipedia. I don't like it either, but i know it will happen. But i just feel that this article has no comparison to the description of the Original Chaotic in the articles Titled : Chaotic & Chaotic Trading Card Game. Well other than a few small details but that isn't enough (I think) to try and combine (Merge) the two articles. I feel that this article has more detail as to what Chaotic: Now Or Never! Really is, along with both Grolls & Gork and Dracco Heads. I don't see how none of you can't see that. I will respect your opinions. OK, i will but, but explain to me how and why we can make this a single article. rather than combining the two. -ElementalDraco218 (talk) 00:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
That is exactly the problem -- it looks like a fansite. Wikipedia isn't fansite -- it's supposed to be a serious encyclopedia, and an entry such as this would never been found in an encyclopedia. I personally think the site takes itself a bit to seriously sometimes...but really, there's no question that this page needs work.
Oh, and in the future, kindly make an effort to get my name right. There's no TV show called The Rice Is Right. -TPIRFanSteve (talk) 02:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uhhh... OK.

(Originally posted by TPIRFanSteve

That is exactly the problem -- it looks like a fansite. Wikipedia isn't fansite -- it's supposed to be a serious encyclopedia, and an entry such as this would never been found in an encyclopedia. I personally think the site takes itself a bit to seriously sometimes...but really, there's no question that this page needs work.

Oh, and in the future, kindly make an effort to get my name right. There's no TV show called The Rice Is Right.)

Dude! Are you trying to confuse me or something? What are you talking about? Who mentioned a Fansite? And if i misspelled your name sorry. I didn't realize i had.

ElementalDraco218 (talk) 11:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Concerns.

Okay, i was thinking, If the two are merged what exactly it going to be changed? (Upon Merging that is, not after.) If i feel it it reasonable, then i will throw in the towel so we can be done with this argument. If i feel it isn't reasonable, then i will try my best to keep this a separate article.

ElementalDraco218 (talk) 11:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

If it is left where it is, It will be edited similarly to the way it would be edited by combining. Some of the portions of the article had read too much like a kid desperate to hold on to a beloved toy and those will be removed either way because this is an encyclopedia, not a fan-site. I have been doing research and am starting to think that since the NON was a separate TCG entirely from the current Chaotic TCG that we can keep it separate in the article, but it need to look encyclopedic. I have some things listed below that need addressed and since I do not know much about Chaotic except what is in Wikipedia, it would be better to be done by someone else. Mathman1550 (talk) 19:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origional Cards

The section titled 'Origional cards' in the article needs to be redone. Instead of describing how its hard to find the cards or their images, describe the cards themselves and how they differ from the current cards. People can tell for themselves that it is hard to find the cards.

Also, some parts of this article conflict with the Chaotic and Chaotic Trading Card Game articles. Some research needs to be done to find which is right.

  • Who did Bryan C. Gannon sign a contract with? Henrik Andersen and his brother Jacob OR 4Kids Entertainment? Or are Henrik Andersen and his brother Jacob representatives of 4Kids? Or were there 2 separate contracts?
  • Who is Merlin P. Mann, and what part does he play in this game?
  • Is Bryan C. Gannon the creator of the game, or just an executive for the company that owned or produced the game?
  • I'm sure there are more differences, but those are all I could find at the moment.

Mathman1550 (talk) 18:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ok. So does that mean it will stay a seperate article?

Or did i misinterpret the comment you posted in the comment titled: Concerns? I have followed Chaotic for a very long time. But i know a few people who has more reliable info about Chaotic than me. I am a long time fan of Chaotic but i don't know everything or as much as others.

The following questions were obviously posted by you and i have answered the questions.

  Who did Bryan C. Gannon sign a contract with? Henrik Andersen and his brother Jacob OR 4Kids Entertainment? Or are Henrik Andersen and his brother Jacob representatives of 4Kids? Or were there 2 separate contracts?

He signed it with 4Kids Entertainment. They were the same not two different contracts. As far as Henrik Andersen goes, (According to Wikipedia) he is a Danish Football (That means soccer) Player. And as for his brother, I can't find anything on him.

  Who is Merlin P. Mann, and what part does he play in this game?

He is the author of the famous children's novels (Comic, (Book) Series) called Taynikma. He has something to do with Grolls & Gorks, but any info about what roll he played, involving the Grolls & Gorks TCG is theoretically impossible to decipher unless you speak danish. (Which i don't unfortunately)

  Is Bryan C. Gannon the creator of the game, or just an executive for the company that owned or produced the game?

He is the CEO and President Of TC Digital Entertainment, Inc. He is also the creator of Chaotic and Grolls And Gorks. I posted that before but someone deleted that from the original article. Plus he is the person who created TC Digital and Chaotic USA Group, Inc.

(NOTE: This goes for anyone. If i answered the 3 questions above wrong (Which i believe i didn't) Then please feel free to correct them.)

ElementalDraco218 (talk) 21:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ok got it.

(Originally posted by MathMan1550

The section titled 'Original cards' in the article needs to be redone. Instead of describing how its hard to find the cards or their images, describe the cards themselves and how they differ from the current cards. People can tell for themselves that it is hard to find the cards.

Also, some parts of this article conflict with the Chaotic and Chaotic Trading Card Game articles. Some research needs to be done to find which is right.)

Ok, i will add that part later. (No point in saying anything about it, i know you or someone will edit it anyways, that has been made perfectly clear in multiple and previous comments.)

ElementalDraco218 (talk) 22:23, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What is all of that stuff?

What is that stuff at the top of this page and the article? What the heck Man?! Who is this Khlieeq person?! And why does he get to have the Copywrite laws and license to him/hers (Don't know the persons gender) articles but other people can't? That just isn' right?!

71.55.85.9 (talk) 20:04, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

All the stuff at the top of the page means that Khlieeq has started a wikiproject (which is a sort of organization for improvement of all Chaotic articles, not just this one). Khlieeq just put the notice onto this page. I don't see where Khlieeq put anything to do with copyrights here; and in the main article (s)he just changed 'Now Or Never' to 'Now or Never'. Mathman1550 (talk) 21:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

The Copywrite / license i am talking about is that photo of the Chaotic Scanner that says: WP Chaotic. When you click on it it takes you to a page titled Chaotic Project Logo. There is a little box at the top of that page descriping the copywrite laws, ect. And it mentions Khlieeq. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElementalDraco218 (talk • contribs) 17:03, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

For images, only 1 person can upload it to Wikipedia, so naturally that one person is the only one who signs the image page. But in addition, that person must justify the image with copyright information, and the image must not be an infringement on any existing copyright. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathman1550 (talk • contribs) 22:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

So in order for me or anyone to upload photos they have to sign for it? So whats the page link to sign?

ElementalDraco218 (talk) 00:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Not exactly sign for it; first, they have to be signed in as a wikipedia editor, then they can upload the file and wikipedia automatically records who uploads it. Then the person must input reasoning of why the image is usable by wikipedia through the GNU or through some other copyright reasoning (the user took the picture/made the picture from scratch, the picture is of free licence, the picture is copyrighted to an agency that has given permission, etc). See also Help:Images and other uploaded files and Wikipedia:Image copyright tags. Mathman1550 (talk) 04:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question About The Chaotic: Now Or Never! Article.

Is this article still going to be merged or removed or is it going to remain a separate article? If it is still going to be merged or removed how do i keep that from happening? Other than trying to (Quote), look more Encyclopedic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElementalDraco218 (talk • contribs) 23:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Since the tags are removed its staying (unless someone else puts the tags back up). It would still be good for you to be working on the article though. Improve it in any way you can. Mathman1550 (talk) 03:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

What Tags?

ElementalDraco218 (talk) 02:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The bar at the top of the article stating it was being proposed for a merge. Any bars like that are also called tags on wikipedia. Mathman1550 (talk) 03:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, OK, i get. ElementalDraco218 (talk) 17:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] About the rest of the info i haven't added yet to the Article.

First off i have been spending most of my time for the last 3 days trying to decipher the intro on the Croatian Dracco Heads 2 website.

I have 75% of it finished.

Then i will later add the information on the purpose of both Dracco Heads and Grolls & Gorks. (Backgrounds, Game Play, That sort of stuff)

ElementalDraco218 (talk) 17:54, 25 May 2008 (UTC)