Talk:Chaim Yisroel Eiss

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This article is based on [1]. Since Danubablue's username is the same as the email address given for that page's webmaster, I believe she is probably the author of this text, so I don't think this is a copyvio. I have contacted her to try to confirm that this is the case. — Haeleth Talk 23:22, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I have changed my website as you told me. It is OK now.

Contents

[edit] Desperately needs to be edited for NPOV and encyclopedia style

I found this article while searching on George Mantello, for whom I hope to create a small stub article that will draw editors for development. The Chaim Yisroel Eiss article at present provides a wealth of content, but doesn't begin to follow encyclopedia style. There is considerable use of first-person POV language, as well as comments like "chief proponent of the don’t-annoy-the-gentiles approach," which may be entirely accurate but is of questionable tone for an encyclopedia article.

Hoping someone with editorial experience AND a knowledge of Chaim Yisroel Eiss can step in and improve the article, which has good raw material. Lawikitejana 16:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I restart this article again.
If someone would like to edit it as he prefer it will be very helpfully than deleting it. If someone wants to verify the contents, I would like to help him.
danubablue 08:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Please do. Yodaat 12:01, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article

I fixed most of the article and would appreciate it if someone went through it and corrected it. The last section still has to be redone, renamed, and moved. Also, should the 'quotes' and 'today' sections stay?

Thanks, Yodaat 01:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

  • I commend your efforts to try to improve this article, but please see my IMPORTANT NOTICE at the top of the Talk page. —gorgan_almighty 11:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Important notice

This article is a re-creation of an article that was originally deleted under {{prod}}. This is a better version, as the original was written in the first person and was copied verbatim from a website. However this version is currently unsourced and unverified, and should be deleted again at short notice if it does not show signs of improvement. —gorgan_almighty 11:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

This is irrelevant now. Yodaat 23:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding gorgan's important notice

The reason given for the deletion was the the article was written in a completely unencyclopediac fashion and contained first person references. I have and will try to change this original reason for deletion.

As to your other concern, I added a request for sources to the original authors talk page (added here as well). I also hope to get around to looking for sources myself, but only through the net.

I do believe ample time should be given to find sources before the page is deleted and oppose any immediate move.

Thank you, Yodaat 11:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

  • No worries, I was not suggesting any immediate move. I was simply trying to prevent this article from laying stagnant for months like the previous version did before I finally proposed it for deletion. —gorgan_almighty 12:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What happened to this page

What happened to this page? It seems I deleted most of it, but the diff summary says otherwise. I've got to go -- can someone please tell me if the body of the article still exists?

Thanks, Yodaat 13:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Fixed, but needed a revert. Can someone please properly do the reference section as it seems I haven't properly figured it out yet? Yodaat 17:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stop for a moment - Very Important

I am very concerned about a post that Lawikitejana added to User talk:Yodaat. I quote the post below...

Back when the article first was tagged as not having secondary sources and so on, I searched various kinds of databases to see if some existed, but none of the databases I have access to in English had anything at all. So I think the best we can do is find a relevant subject page (e.g., people who saved Jews in the Holocaust) and add a mention of this person, together with the link to the page about him. Lawikitejana 12:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

If it is indeed true that no other verifiable information exists on this fellow other than the original author's webpage, we need to seriously consider whether or not he is real, or whether it is a hoax. If the claims in the article are true, then there should be ample information available on him. Yodaat, when you recreated this page, did you use a verifiable source of information, or did you just use the original page or the author's website? —gorgan_almighty 16:51, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I was concerned, and therefore did a search. Many -- most -- were mirrors of Wikipedia or copies of the original editor's article. A search using the transcription Chaim Yisrael (as opposed to the original author's Yisroel, however I found Yad Vashem's article (see reference; also, can someone properly do the reference as I messed up?). Not much, not long, but from a reputable source.
I do hope the original author, danubablue, will be so kind and give us his sources. Until then, though, we do know that R. Eiss was real and that the activities listed are accurate (more or less, I didn't have time to give YV's profile a complete lookthrough).
Also, I did not create the page. I just changed (most of) it into an encyclopedia article instead of a Jewish-publication one.
Yodaat 17:38, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The original author, danubablue, claimed to be Chaim Yisroel Eiss' granddaughter. That was the only reference she gave that I can remember.
I did a Google search for "Chaim Yisrael Eiss" and found 2 possible sources:
  1. The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority article, which you found. I don't know if this source can be considered an acceptable reference on Wikipedia, as I don't know enough about this Rememberance Authority. I can't seem to find a Wikipedia article on it though.
  2. A list of 3 published documents on the The Hebrew University of Jerusalem website. The link itself isn't a viable reference, but my understanding is that the documents it mentions might be, even if they are not available on the internet, providing they are publicly available somewhere in paper form. Note that I may be wrong about that. In any case, we would of course need to obtain a copy of the documents and read them first.
For the moment I am going to mark the article as {{disputed}}, and clean it up a little. If the article is kept, then it will inevitably have to be moved to Chaim Yisrael Eiss.
—gorgan_almighty 09:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


I've given the article a massive clean-up. Let me know what you think. —gorgan_almighty 11:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks http://books.google.com/books?id=Qf2ObniBSScC&pg=PA321&ots=O1iQQ3Yzkm&dq=yisroel+eiss&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=qYhwMcWqbvt4vU1sp1DB3g8oTgQ Some of the letters were published in some newspapers in Israel but it can not be seen in the internet.

You can talk with Prof. kranzler (http://www.holocaust-trc.org/kranzler.htm). He wrote a lot about R' chaim yisroel eiss.

I will be glad to send you some letters of him if you want

danubablue 21:52, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Danubablue, you can add the publication information for the Israeli newspapers. Sources do not have to be online, only published; so long as you provide sufficient information for others to be able to look up sources for themselves, then it's OK. If the publications are in languages other than English, that information should be included in parentheses within the citation, like so:
  • Authorfirst Lastname. "Title of the article" [translated title if not in English], Example Israeli Newspaper Weekly, Date, section, page number. (In Hebrew)

That would be very helpful, as the rest of us won't easily be able to find anything that's not online. Lawikitejana 14:25, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

You can see at http://66.249.91.104/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.peterkamber.ch/baz/240499.html&prev=/language_tools. All the articles in http://www.chaimyisroeleiss.com were published in newspapers in Hebrew. To give you all the published sources, I need a lot of time. I will try to do it as soon as I can. —danubablue

  • Thank you Danubablue. Please do provide all the information you can. —gorgan_almighty 13:41, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

Unless there are any objections, I am going to move this article to Chaim Yisrael Eiss (note spelling change), as that spelling appears to be inline with the consensus of the various information sources. —gorgan_almighty 13:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Which sources?
In the modern Hebrew we say Israel or Yisrael but in Erope in those years they usualy said Yisroel (as it now).
What to you think?
danubablue 03:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
True. Yisroel is the Ashkenazi-European spelling, and he was from Eastern Europe. Yodaat 14:00, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


I had to replace the spelling of several items in the article, because they didn't match spelling consensus. For example Eretz Yisroel was replaced with Israel (see here). Where possible we always use the English name on the English Wikipedia. Also Agudas Israel was replaced with Agudath Israel, Kol Yisroel was replaced with Kol Yisrael, and there's probably a few others as well.

On the issue of the spelling of Chaim Yisroel Eiss, the sources I refer to are:

  1. The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority article on Chaim Yisrael Eiss,
  2. A list of 3 published documents on the The Hebrew University of Jerusalem website, and
  3. A number of other websites I came across while researching this man. They weren't notable enough for inclusion, but they all seemed to spell the name with an 'a' not an 'o'.

Normally modern-day spelling would take precedent, although that's not necessarily true in the case of a person's name. But in this case, the only verifiable sources we currently have spell it with an 'a', so I can't see any justification for doing otherwise in this article. —gorgan_almighty 10:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)