Talk:Cha-cha-cha (dance)

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[edit] Dance

Cha-cha dance is always to cha-cha music, also, where are the citations for those specific songs being cha-cha. I listended to them and they do not seem to be cha-cha songs. the 3rd sextion is about the music. Unlike salsa and slasa (dance), there is not enoguh information to differenciate the two. Mishy dishy 22:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I object to the term "street cha-cha-chá in Cuba." In Cuba, there is no such thing as "street cha-cha-chá." There is just one kind of cha-cha-chá and it's usually danced inside.Ricardovacilon 21:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I think there is no reason to have both Cha-cha-cha and Cha-cha-cha (dance) articles. They are practically about the same topic, have substantial overlap in meaning and text, and they do not have enough information separately to warrant two separate pages. I will merge them in a few days unless there is a good reason otherwise. --Yurik 4 July 2005 19:52 (UTC)

And the reason is good: These are different things. It is ridiculous to claim that music and dance are the same things. And I fail to see any overlap of the contents, by the way. I have an impression that you have no slightest idea on the subject. Removing the merge notice and suggesting to do drastic article changes only in the areas of some minimal expertise. mikka (t) 5 July 2005 00:54 (UTC)

Actually, people often dance to music. And for what it's worth, the two articles do overlap dramatically in their opening paragraphs, to the point where I had to double-check to make sure they weren't duplicates. I suggest a merge. --Quuxplusone 03:39, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I also have "no slightest idea on the subject", but it seems to me these two could be merged. It's worth noting that this article was originally part of Cha-cha-cha and was cut out to this page by Mikka on Feb 2005. Clearly Mikka feels strongly about this idea. --Bookandcoffee 17:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I do. And I know the difference. I only don't have time to expand the dance article up to what it deserves, wasting my time on various obscure and useless topics like zand, zandik, and People's Artist... mikka (t) 02:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Mikka. These two articles should not be merged, for basically the same reason that salsa music and salsa (dance) are different articles. The cha-cha-cha music article should cover the music, while the dance article covers the dance steps. —Lowellian (reply) 12:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I understand why mikka might want a separate page for Cha Cha music, but the problem is that the cha-cha-cha page has only a few sentences on music:

The cha-cha-cha (in Spanish cha-cha-chá and also known simply as the cha-cha) is a style of dance music. In 1951, Cuban composer and violinist Enrique Jorrín introduced the cha-cha-chá to Cuban dance floors while playing with Orquesta América. According to Jorrín, the sound made by the shoes of the dancers on the floor sounded like "cha-cha-cha", while they tried to follow the new rhythm that, at the beginning, was simply called "mambo-rumba". In 1953, his La Engañadora and Silver Star became recorded hits. In early days, this dance and its music were both known as "triple mambo" or "mambo with guiro rhythm".

The vast majority of the cha-cha-cha page covers the dance. I personally don't think it matters too much whether there are one or two pages altogether. What does matter, however, is that if you want to link to the dance, you only have one page you need to link to. Given the amount of text dedicated to describing the music it /could/ be integrated with the dance, so long as it is given a top-level heading. I hope we can all agree that things are currently a mess. Rosenbluh 22:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed information and cleanup

I don't take a stance in the merge/preserve issue, but the overlaps should be sorted out. And there are more issues with this article:

The issue of dancing cha-cha-cha on 1-2-cha-cha-cha or 2-3-cha-cha-cha is disputed, and the article doesn't mention any sources. According to my sources, there is only one rhythmic pattern which correctly fits in a cha-cha-cha song, the one where the cha-cha-cha falls on the opening tones of the tumbao, namely beats 4, 4& and 1. (Source: martin Blais: "Latin Dance Study Guide", 2004, http://furius.ca/salsa-notes). There are of course people dancing otherwise as well, but it should be mentioned that this is musically incorrect. Cha-cha-cha is till very closely related to its cuban origins, and should be danced accordingly.

Furthermore, the artcile starts with some quotes, are these relevant? There should be more information in the beginning about the dance itself, or why not write that there is a dispute over how it should be danced? Comparing the articles cha-cha-cha and cha-cha-cha (dance), there seems to be an inconsistency about the history.

Also, some of the music in the examples is really only pop, there should be more cuban examples to provide an unbiased sample. And having five versions of "Sway" is redundant.

Finally, we don't need to have the International latin Cha-Cha Syllabus written out here, at least not without providing an explanation as to what it is. Some might even see this as an commercial, it's not encyclopaedia-material.62.142.46.22 00:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

  • It seems you are not familiar with non-cuban cha-chas:
    • "1-2-cha-cha-cha" issue: You are confusing latin chacha with other kinds. Not only latin cha-cha exist, and not every tune has (or implies) tumbao. There are even several songs named "One Two Cha Cha Cha" (or contain these words). I especially hate "Everybody likes to cha cha cha"
    • "Some qoutes": these are simply trolling; deleted.
    • "International Latin" is not commercial. It is universally recognized ballroom technique.
`'mikka (t) 22:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cha-cha-cha dance music

The following table is moved out of article. Please provide references that prove that these songs (a) exist at all and (b) cha-cha-chable. `'mikka (t) 22:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Arranged alphabetically in order of artists last name or band name.
Artist Title Album Year
Antique When the Rhythm Starts to Play
Black Eyed Peas Where's the Love
Michael Bublé Sway 2003
Cribbins, Bernard Right Said Fred 1962
Arielle Dombasle Quien Sera (Sway) 2004
Idol, Billy White Wedding 1982
Julio Iglesias Gozar La Vida
Michael Jackson Billie Jean Thriller 1982
Tom Jones Sex Bomb
Julie London Sway
Dean Martin Sway 1954
George Michael Amazing
Wilson Pickett Mustang Sally
Pink Get The Party Started (party mix) M!ssundaztood 2001
Pussycat Dolls Sway 2004
Bobby Rydell Sway 1960
Santana Corazon Espinado Supernatural 1999
Santana feat. Rob Thomas Smooth Supernatural 1999
Santana feat. Michelle Branch The Game of Love Shaman 2002
Smash Mouth Walkin' On the Sun Astro Lounge
Shania Twain That Don't Impress Me Much Come On Over 1997


In fact, I don't see why this table must be here at all. There are THOUSANDS of cuban cha-chas, thousands of ballroom arrangements and thousands 4/4 tunes that "feel" like cha-cha. A common wikipedia rule is only notable things must generally be mentioned. Wikipedia is not a musical catalog. `'mikka (t) 22:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confused about the origin of the Cha Cha.

The definiton in Wikipedia talks about Pierre Lavelle from the United Kingtom visiting Cuba in 1952 "to discover mambo" he can not discover anything he learn to Mambo and/or Cha Cha but "not discover it."

In 1952, I was doing the Mambo and Cha Cha-ing at the Palladium ballroom in NYC. I understood it to be part of the Afro-centric music of Cuba (Afro-Cuban). Part of the cane cutting rhythms of the slaves. It is a work rhythm as is most of the Afro-centric music in the Americas. It has been danced as the Cha Cha long before 1952, As per some of the Black Exploitation film of the twenties.

68.6.75.51 02:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Martin L. White68.6.75.51 02:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

somebody redo this! it sucks! ~L.A. Law —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.162.185.66 (talk) 15:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Read the Spanish version

Why in the world does the article start with a discussion about the foreigner who traveled to Cuba to "discover" the dance? What about how the dance originated in Cuba in the 50s? What about the Cuban dancers and musicians? They might tell you a different story. Funny how the dance can become universal but language is not. dmcmanam dmcmanam December 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.32.249 (talk) 04:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The Spanish version speaks about music and nothing meaningful and referenced about dance. `'Míkka>t 21:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Completely pathetic article!

Let me list the problems:

  1. Too, many, commas
  2. Poor general organization
  3. Sentences don't flow, even though there are transition phrases occasionally
  4. Ridiculous amount of typos
  5. What's the point of a syllabus taking half the article?
  6. Italics beginning paragraphs (i.e. "Foot work)
  7. Reads like a collection of opinions

The entire article needs to be rewritten, or at the very least restructured.

Rosenbluh (talk) 21:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)