Talk:Ceuta

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[edit] Immigration issues

I think some comments should be added regarding the recent problems that they are having with illegal immigration. I just saw something in the news and came here looking for info, but there is nothing in this article.

[edit] Misc.

According to the article Enclave, "Ceuta is not normally called an enclave, since it is reachable by sea." Anyone has an idea for modifying the article Ceuta accordingly? - User:Olivier

I think I'd be more in favour of modifying Enclave - not counting "coastal enclaves" seems to be a very idiosyncratic definition. -- Khendon

See also: Talk:Enclave - User:Olivier

It is claimed that Ceuta is known in France as Sebta, but I've never seen this spelling used, and it seems to be far less common than the other. Removed the remark. David.Monniaux 22:14, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

I notice there is a separate History of Ceuta page which could be merged with the main Ceuta page. If no one else objects, I will move it & make it a section for it on the Ceuta page. --Roisterer 01:39, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I was browsing throw the former Portuguese colonies info, and stopped in ceuta (just by instance and after seeing several) [1] and saw something wrong, it uses the portuguese shield in the flag. (the Portuguese shield is the most important symbol in the Portuguese flag, and it's used since the foundation of the nation. While the rest of the flag changed with different kings and w/the republic, but the shield was always kept. I though there is something wrong in here. And I get to the the official site and I learned that they use Lisbon's flag (what I didnt notice at first) [[2]]. o.O I knew the people from Ceuta see their formation has a city in the conquest of it to the Moors, and they are very friendly to Portuguese, but I honestly didnt expect it to use those symbols. Although the shield can be related to Ceuta cause it was part of the reconquista. And in the Portuguese shield the reconquista is alluded. -Pedro 16:21, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


First, as you have said, Ceuta was a Portuguese Colony. If you look carefully, you will see that ceuta didn't use exactly the portuguese shield in the flag. The portuguese shield is Lisbon's old shield, that was used by Portugal too when Ceuta was a colony. But Ceuta's shield is a bit different cause Ceuta isn't the capital of Portugal, because the castle in the middle-top border of the shield of the Portuguese shield is in a middle-botton position in Ceuta's shield (that in heraldics means Cauta is a colony, not the capital city). Moreover, Ceuta uses a 'Marquesal' (marquisal) Crown, instead of a Royal or Republican Crown like Portugal used in the past. That is because Ceuta was a 'Marca' (mark) or border of Portugal. During the portuguese colonization Ceuta uses during a time another shield, but when it was kept by Castile after Portugal Independence, the Portuguese shield was kept too. Felipealvarez 20:06, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Olá Felipe. I know about the crown. The shield is THE symbol of Portugal, is THE real flag, you can find it everywhere from old castles built in the 12th century to a todays website. There is no republican crown. The crown was removed since the republic was installed. You can read the symbology of the Portuguese shield. I was shocked to see such a symbol used by another country. Although linked to Portugal in the History. Ceuta was given to Spain because it was full of Spanish people, so the governor didnt accept the new Portuguese king in 1640. And Portugal officially gave the colony to Spain as a symbol and as gift to end the restauration war of the Portuguese crown.

You should read again, carefully, the shield is the national symbol it isnt the symbol of Lisbon. The symbol of Lisbon is what ceuta uses has the flag. The shield is exactly the Portuguese shield with a crown.

the importance of the shield: when the new flag was created , they said about the shield: this is one of the most energetic symbols of the national integrity and independence.

It is one of the oldest national symbols in Europe. The flags since 1143: [3]. Did they talk to the Portuguese government when they adopted that flag? -Pedro 21:18, 24 May 2005 (UTC)


  • See the differences between Ceuta's [4] and Portugal [5] (Notice the possition of the castles, the center of the shield is the same. What I said in the last comment was extracted from [6] (In Spanish). I doubt they talk to the portuguese government when they adopted the flag, in Spain, when a town wants to have a shield or a flag, they do a project and sends it to the autonomous community government (regional goverment) for approval. Ceuta is a town and a autonomous community (called city in this case) and a town, so they choose the shield and the flag they wanted without supervision. In the autonomous community creation act ('Estatuto de Autonomía de Ceuta de 1995') said that the flag and the shield would be the tradicional ones, that were being used since the Portuguese colonization. So Ceuta didn't change their flag and shield when they became Spanish. Felipealvarez 23:15, 24 May 2005 (UTC) (I try to explain in a clear way, any doubt?)
  • I read that link, I gave it innitially. But I see the difference!!!! A castle has a different position! But also see this: [7] <- see the castles changing in each royal flag. I read that they only used the flag of Lisbon and they later added (or readded) the shield. But you are correct, they always used it. Strange. BTW it would be useful to add that flag in this article. And I bet there will be more people thinking "There's something wrong in here!" ;) -Pedro 00:48, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

Shouldn't this article include something about Demographics? What percentage are Muslim, what percentage are N. African vs. Spanish, etc.

Yom 18:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes it should. A majority of Ceutíes are Christian although there is a large and probably growing Muslim minority. In any case 100% are North African since Ceuta happens to be in North Africa.:-)

[edit] Revert

I reverted the sentence starting with "Septem redirects here..." since I assume that if somebody is actually searching for Septem, and they get here, they will certainly realize they've been forwarded. If somebody believes a dab is in order, please add properly.

Thanks

Sebastian Kessel Talk 23:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I can think of several alternate meanings of the word, but not off the top of my head. I may put up a dab page later if I can think of a few. Thank you for your explanation. Don't give an Ameriflag 20:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Economy?

This article really needs an economy section. Anyone know? I'm guessing its tourism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.206.165.40 (talk) 03:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

Well I started it for ya :) The data is mostly from two sources, one a government document, from IBRU, (with a very CIA-worldbook-ish slant but otherwise remarkably fact-full), and the other the Ceunta web page. I did a little searching online, for more, but I couldn't find much: it is a small city (according to the standard definition of >100,000 people, it is not a city at all) which happily promotes tourism and especially wants businesses to locate there, but acts principaly as a truck stop for international trade, so it's hard to find a lot of coverage in the common media. The spanish-language page for Ceunta goes into great detail about the cultural/tourist events, but I felt that wasn't apt, at least for this section, since tourism is not actually the primary source of income for the city. — robbiemuffin page talk 20:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Acording

Acording to Larousse, Marinids, was a Kingdom and dynasty, and the Kingdom of Grenada took the place.Bokpasa 07:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Religion

What's the proportion of muslims and christians in the city?thanks Digodf (talk) 00:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC) PS: Aljazeera english is broadcasting a serie called "walls of shame". One of the episodes is about Ceuta. The links are:part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5av8Pb0z3o8&feature=related and part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXd_9Fr72BE&feature=related

I'm not sure, the city webpage doesn't have the actual statistics. But there are primarily 3 ethno-national groups there: the spanish (afterall, they've held the place for the better part of the last millenium), the marruecones, and the hindus. the hindus definitely come in third. — robbiemuffin page talk 20:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)