Talk:CESNUR

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[edit] CESNUR

David, I reverted your remark that CESNUR was funded by Scientology. I could not find any references for it and I strongly believe it to be incorrect. Andries 20:35, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

To start you off, here is a Usenet post by Anton Hein (Apologetics Index) on the murkiness of the funding arrangements of CESNUR and of the academic study of NRMs in general. You are correct, in that it's not just Scientology paying them. But CESNUR are essentially paid public relations for the groups they write about. Compare Alexis de Tocqueville Institution and the tobacco industry. A reference supported by a study from CESNUR cannot reasonably be considered more than a press release with foot notes - David Gerard 00:02, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by Andries

Please explain the reasons for the deletion you made. Is it just because you don't like it? ≈ jossi ≈ 22:02, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

Jossi,

I hardly deleted anything. Andries 07:14, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

1. Where is the proof that they are leading universities? Free University is not leading. Not bad either. Andries 07:14, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2. I wrote several times that the scholars affliated with CESNUR are not a unity; they often disagree with each other. An opinion of one scholar can not be taken as CESNUR's official opinion. Andries 07:14, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
3. CESNUR did not write apostate. They wrote ex-members who rationalize thier past. I do not understand why Zappaz changed that and he should explain his edits, not me. Andries 07:14, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Don't understand why you think that the University of Turin, the London School of Economics, the University of Friburg, and the University of Montreal, are not leading. ≈ jossi ≈ 19:08, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

I do not know. The burden of proof is on the claimant. This is not an advertisement. I have not removed the word "leading" only from CESNUR but also from the Coimbra Group. Andries 21:06, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

???????????? Are we in a court of law, or editing an encyclopedia? What is this thing about the burdern of proof? ≈ jossi ≈ 00:55, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

Jossi, Please provide references for the word "leading". Andries 18:05, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I did: University of Turin, the London School of Economics, the University of Friburg, and the University of Montreal ≈ jossi ≈ 00:50, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Please provide references for the assertion that all the affiliated universities are leading. Andries 07:06, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, no. I will not. This is absolutely crazy. Forget it, Keep it, enjoy it, celebrate your "win". ??????. ≈ jossi ≈ 15:59, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

The fact that you' rationalize your past, does not means that it is what CESNUR says. This is an article about CESNUR not about Andries. Reverted. ≈ jossi ≈ 15:59, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

CESNUR website says,

"Information supplied by anti-cult activists claims to be eminently practical but in fact is largely theoretical and anedoctical, based as it is on secondary sources, from press clippings to accounts of families of members (not necessarily familiar with the movements) or of ex-members rationalizing their past experiences." from http://www.cesnur.org/about.htm

Please Jossi, if you do not have time to study the subject then at least do not hinder others who do. Andries 18:01, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK ≈ jossi ≈ 18:19, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "CESNUR affiliated scholars"

Where is the evidence that certain people are "CESNUR affiliated scholars"? If they are, there should be some web page with a board or whatever. Or does the definition mean that these people have been at a CESNUR conference? If so, it means nothing. Introvigne told me that if I paid, even I could read a paper at a conference. --Tilman 12:04, 7 October 2006 (UTC)s

The only affiliated Scholars seem to be Eileen Barker and Gordon Melton. The organizations started by Barker and Melton have many times teamed up with CESNUR. Unless citations can be shown to be "affiliated scholar" it is original work and should be deletedJohn196920022001 (talk)

The comment about the only requirement for reading a paper is paying a fee is partially correct. The research has to be an accepted by a executive committee, and Massimo told me that such a paper content has to be of academic quality. The person is not required to be a professional scholar. Once the paper is accepted the person must pay the conference fee for the paper to be locked-in for the conferenceJohn196920022001 (talk)