Talk:Centrifugal compressor

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[edit] Image

That image is HUGE. dq 21:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

This page needs an illustration. Telling from the history, it looks like it used to have one, but it was copyrighted and thus removed. It needs something like this to get the real feel of what's going on. Novous 15:40, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove discussion of "centrifugal force"

"centrifugal not a real word"? It has a real wikipedia entry ... (which quite clearly explains about reactive and fictitious forces, and the rotating frames of reference). Can this aside be deleted? Daniel Barlow 09:26, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, that paranthetical statement should be removed as it's not relevant to compressors. I'll take it out. (Besides, centrifugal forces do exist just as much as imaginary numbers exist...) dq 14:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tip speed

"Tip speeds of centrifugal compressors" was changed in a previous revision to "top speeds". I'm not an expert in the subject, but I believe "tip speed" was the correct phrase, not a typo. Does anyone who is wish to comment/revert? Daniel Barlow 13:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FYI and for Discussion only

Agree:

• 1) Centrifugal compressors are used throughout industry because they have fewer rubbing parts, are relatively energy efficient, and give higher airflow than a similarly sized reciprocating/positive-displacement compressor.
• 2) Centrifugal fan/blowers are more suited to continuous-duty applications such as ventilation fans, air movers, cooling units, and other uses that require high volume but fairly low pressures. Multi-stage centrifugal compressors often achieve discharge pressures of 8,000 to 10,000 psi injecting nitrogen into oil fields to increase oil production

Disagreements:

• 1) Professionally, I know of no one in the HVAC industry that would ever refer to a squirrel cage blower/fan as a compressor. The squirrel cage impeller discharge flow within the scroll is not circumferentially uniform.
• 2) Centrifugal compressors DO NOT operate by using the centrifugal force applied to an air mass to achieve compression. Centrifugal is a misnomer.
• 3) It is almost irrelevant that centrifugal blowers can operate in reverse and act as a turbine.
• 4) Also, pipeline compressors are not really referred to as jets, most often they are driven by gas-turbines, thus use of the term jet.

--Mkoronowski 18:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I propose the following replacement of the current text

This is the current text to be I propose to replace:

A centrifugal compressor, also called a radial blower, squirrel cage, or squirrel wheel compressor, consists of a cylindrical assembly of compressor blades mounted on an axle. The compressor operates by using the centrifugal force applied to an air mass to achieve compression. Centrifugal compressors are used throughout industry because they have few moving parts, are very energy efficient, and give higher airflow than a similarly sized reciprocating compressor. Their primary drawback is that they cannot achieve the high compression ratio of reciprocating compressors without multiple stages. Centrifugal compressors are more suited to continuous-duty applications such as ventilation fans, air movers, cooling units, and other uses that require high volume but fairly low pressures. While technically centrifugal blowers can operate in reverse, due to blade design and other factors their efficiency is greatly reduced. When centrifugal blowers are used in pipelines they are sometimes called jets.

This is the proposed text to replace the above text:

Centrifugal compressors, (sometimes referred to as radial compressors) are a special class of radial-flow work-absorbing turbomachinery (ref Turbomachinery, Euler) that include pumps, fans, blowers and compressors ^[1]. The earliest forms of these dynamic-devices ^[2] were pumps, fans and blowers. What differentiates these devices from compressors is that the working fluid can be considered incompressible thus permitting accurate analysis through Bernoulli’s Energy equation (ref Daniel Bernoulli). In contrast, modern centrifugal compressor analysis must deal with compressible flow. For purposes of definition, centrifugal compressors often have density increases greater than 5-percent. Also, they often experience relative fluid velocities above Mach 0.3 when the working is air or nitrogen (ref Ernst Mach, Mach Number). In contrast fans or blowers are often considered to have density increases of less than 5-perent and peak relative fluid velocities below Mach 0.3 In an idealized sense, the dynamic compressor achieves a pressure rise by adding kinetic-energy/velocity to a continuous flow of fluid through the rotor or impeller. This kinetic energy is then converted to an increase in static pressure by slowing the flow through a diffuser [2].

--Mkoronowski 10:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mkoronowski, please read this help on how to use this page

You have greatly improved this article on centrifugal compressors and I know that you are new to Wikipedia. But I think you need help in learning how to use a Discussion page such as this one.

First of all, always sign your discussion comments. And new comments always go beneath the older comments (not above them).

Also, it is not allowed to delete any discussion comments from a discussion page, as you did. I will try to straighten that out and replace the comments you deleted when I get time to do so.

Please read the boxed instructions at the very top of this page carefully. Those instructions explain how to automatically sign and date your discussions and how to indent your responses to someone else's discussion. Again, please study the above instructions.

Finally, you do not need to use HTML to get double spacing. Just skip a line in your text and Wikipedia will automatically give you a double space. And don't use HTML to list items ... instead, just use asterisks (*} as I did for one of your above discussions. They will automatically give you a bulleted list. HTML is frowned upon in Wikipedia, so try to learn the Wiki markup language ... it is quite simple.

I hope this helps you and welcome to Wikipedia. - mbeychok 06:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Many many thanks

I want to thank everyone that helped "wikify" my update of the discussion. I know it is obvious that I am new to wikipedia and will certainly need help in the future. My rush to improve the entry was due in part to the number of unintentional misrepresentations that I have seen for too many months.

Again, thank you very much.

I will try my best to meet Wiki's standards. I must apologize for any deletions. I consider that a serious error and am very embarrased.

If I could ask, is there an advisory board where professionals like yourself could spend some one-on-one email time with someone like me to get me up the learning curve? I would have been a lot less dangerous.

Why are your comments to me not being forwarded to my email as i hoped I had requested? Mkoronowski 18:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Your question about an advisory board to help you is the same question I asked when I was new to Wikipedia. No, regretfully there is no such board.

I addressed my above comments to you hopefully to be helpful. If you need further help, you can always contact me on my user page at User talk:mbeychok and I will try to help ... if I have the time. You can also contact me at my email: mbeychok@cox.net and I will try to respond when I have the time. Discussion responses are most usually placed here for everyone to see and for others to learn from the discussions as well. Private e-mail should only be used when confidentiality is a concern.

Looking at the Edit page of articles (and the Edit page of Discussion pages) is one of the best ways to learn how Wikedia does things.

I repeat what I wrote above: Please read the above instruction on how to use this Discussion page. When you want to respond to someone else's comment, you simply indent using : or :: or ::: as the case may be. You do not put a heading (like == Many thanks ==) on your response. Look at the Edit page for this discussion to see how I formatted my response to you.

When you want to discuss a new point, you click on tab marked + at the top of this page and that will give you a form with a space for the subject and a space for discussion of your new point. When you finish, that form will automatically format your heading (like ==Subject==) and automatically place your discussion beneath the previous discussions.

It is best to use capital letters to start sentences. Best regards,- mbeychok 19:31, 31 January 2007 (UTC)