Talk:Catherine Eddowes
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As I mentioned on the talk page of the IP address, when I see a huge article out of nowhere (and two, actually, what with the Martha Tabram article) and especially from an unregistered user, I have to wonder if this is original writing orif it was copied from somewhere. Also, Wikipedia policy is to list people by the name they are most commonly known by, so this article should be at Catherine Eddowes (where another article existed until you erased it and changed it to a redirect) and not Catharine Eddowes. Besides, she spelled her own name "Catherine" so the version with two As isn't even what she considered her name to be. DreamGuy 12:25, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Author's comment
The spelling is up for discussion. I'll add comments to the Jack the Ripper talk page shortly.
Gordon L 21:34, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Minor edit and comments
DreamGuy, thanks for your improvements.
Since popular opinion here is to keep the spelling of "Catherine" with an "e," I've changed the links back to reflect that.
As for "Eddowes's" murder and so forth, perhaps nobody here is a Strunk disciple—"Charles's friend," etc., the very first example on page 1. Of course, there are other nuances to that issue, as Burchfield for one points out. I must admit though that extreme anti-Strunkists who even give movies names in big letters like "The Boss' Wife" get me. How many people do not pronounce that "The Bossiz Wife"? Anyway if we're going to write "Eddowes' murder" instead, I've made that consistent throughout.
It's an interesting point about Eddowes's proposed visit to her daughter. I don't remember hearing it said before that she must have known by then that her daughter had moved. I don't know the date of the move either, or if anyone knows it. Certainly I've heard she had a reputation for cadging money from her daughter, who preferred to keep her new address secret for that reason. That suggests they were estranged. If they were, Eddowes might not have seen her daughter for some time. Also, if she already knew her daughter had moved and couldn't be found, surely she would have told John Kelly that. If she had, why would Kelly buy the excuse that she was going to see her daughter? "Going to track her down if she could" might be a plausible enough excuse though, especially when John and Kate were both in need of money.
In spite of the above, I agree it's very probable that Kate went off to get money by other means, without telling Kelly. Everything fitted together in this relationship. She was warmhearted and generous in insisting he took the few pennies they had left to get a halfway decent night's sleep at a lodging house, while she went off to get a bed at the casual ward. Yet it was financially practical at the same time. If he had to do a hard day's work to earn any money the next day, he needed his "beauty sleep." She could earn money another way by night. But she didn't want to hurt his feelings about that. And if she hoped to spend some of it on a drink or two along the way, that was another motive.
I'm sure Kate was a cheerful soul who did what she had to do to survive, as so many did back then; yet her teamwork was good besides. I wasn't surprised to find that a number of people saw her as having the most attractive personality of the Ripper victims.
Gordon L 05:40, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Hi Gordon,
- The possessive form of words already ending in S was something I was taught quite strictly, and I wasn't aware any reference source suggested it the other way, so that's where that change came from. I don't know who all supports it which way or which would be preferable as a policy.
- I'd have to track down sources on the idea that Kate lied about her reason for leaving. I think there was something about her claiming to have visited previously at times when the person had already moved, probably from the inquest testimony. It's a bit of deduction there then that since she couldn't have found her those previous times that it was all just an excuse. And it's apparent that she did end up drunk far away from where claimed to be going, so apparently wasn't making an attempt to get there. Of course the sources on this would be helpful for a complicated bit like that. I bet Begg's newest book has something on it, I can check later. DreamGuy 09:10, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Kelly?
who is the Kelly the article refers to? This needs to be made more clear
- Yes the narrative at the beginning of The Day of the Murder is entirely confused and makes little sense. You might think Kelly was her husband/partner but then this person is referred to as 'her'. Lycurgus 19:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
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- Wow this is illustrative of something wrong with the WP process. Looking at the history of the paragraph in question, which appears to have good content but is unacceptably bad wrt composition, people keep trying to clean it out and it keeps getting put back. Since the juicy content is unsourced, I've deleted the § entirely. Judging by the log though it'll be back.Lycurgus 23:23, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
