Talk:Catechism of the Catholic Church
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I have removed the sentence reading: "The Roman Catholic Church looks at the CCC as being equal in authority and value to other scripture, like the Bible" because I believe this overstates the case.
The Catholic Church teaches that Holy Scripture is divinely inspired and inerrant; that beside the written Scripture there has always been an unwritten Holy Tradition that is equally a part of the 'deposit of faith;' and that the Church will faithfully interpret and teach the truths of the Faith under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, through the dogmatic definitions of the Councils and the Popes.
The Church teaches no such thing about the Catechism. Rather, the Catechism represents an authoritative exposition of the Church's teaching, as derived from Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition. The Catechism presents and explains divinely inspired and infallible truths, but it is not itself either divinely inspired nor infallible, any more than I am if I quote from Scripture or from one of the Ecumenical councils.
Athanasius 01:05, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] POV
The article seems to me to take a very negative POV toward the Catechism. We define what it is in a few lines, then move to a "Critics" section that focuses almost entirely on the Society of Pius X and their objections to specific doctrines. Shouldn't we have more positive information here. As it stands, it seems like "Traditionalist Views on the Catechism". I was tempted to try a small edit to fix it, but I think it needs quite a bit of reworking to really be neutral. If I get time, I'll try to look into it, but if someone else can do it, so much the better. Mpolo 18:36, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)
It is also true that some liberals aren't great fans of it either. As one person I know put it, the Catechism presents the Catholic faith as monolithic and inflexible, and draws no distinctions between those things that must be believed and those things that the magisterium would like to be believed.
Apparently no one between the death of Thomas Aquinas in 1274 and the Second Vatican Council said anything worth quoting (except for occasional papal statements). I don't remember where, but there was one place where I thought of a quote from Martin Luther that would be apropos, and another place a quote from Robert Bellarmine. Jhobson1 17:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] War
Wasn't there opposition to the Catechism for its doctrine on just war and death penalty?
[edit] More on the POV & Criticisms
The section on the CCC's "sexism," while rather interesting, strike me as entirely groundless. Obviously "the poor and humble of the Lord" are not going to be only women! The fact that CCC took pains to call out the roles of the many poor and humble women who did God's will is anything but sexism. Just because "some people" (yay for weasel words!) have a certain criticism does not mean it merits inclusion here.
For now I'm going to leave it is at is, but I'm adding the "weasel words" and "non-neutral" tags as well. Obviously there's plenty of value in some of the sections, but, as Mpolo said, the article is mostly filled with critiques and that's not a neutral POV. Vespers 05:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
By all means take it out. The history of the page shows that it arose from an accusation of sexism made precisely within the article, which called for a refutation. Lima 05:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but the Catechism is sexist. Here is Paragraph 489:
Throughout the Old Covenant the mission of many holy women prepared for that of Mary. At the very beginning there was Eve; despite her disobedience, she receives the promise of a posterity that will be victorious over the evil one, as well as the promise that she will be the mother of all the living. By virtue of this promise, Sarah conceives a son in spite of her old age. Against all human expectation God chooses those who were considered powerless and weak to show forth his faithfulness to his promises: Hannah, the mother of Samuel; Deborah; Ruth; Judith and Esther; and many other women. Mary "stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him. After a long period of waiting the times are fulfilled in her, the exalted Daughter of Sion, and the new plan of salvation is established."
Deborah, the judge and prophet of Israel, a woman holding genuine political power in a staunchly patriarchal society, "powerless and weak"? Judith, who singlehandedly slew Holofernes with his own sword, "powerless and weak"? Esther, who saved the Jews from Haman, "powerless and weak"? Would you call Ruth "powerless and weak"? No, that paragraph can only be called sexist. Jhobson1 17:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see this -- I think you may overlook the word "considered." As I read it, the CCC is not stating that they were actually powerless and weak, but rather that even though they would have been considered powerless and weak by their staunchly patriarchal society, God nevertheless enabled them to be otherwise. As I read it, the CCC is actually celebrating them as powerful and strong, in the face of what society may have expected. Mlouns 17:52, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Indifferentism
This hould definitely be changed form "the heresy". Other religions have just as much proof of their god or gods as catholics, and as much right to believe what they want as us.
- From the Catholic POV, it's a heresy. Christians call each other heretics all the time. Not a big deal. Jonathan Tweet 14:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] changes
Can we include a section on how this catechism differs from the one it replaced, or from other, previous catechisms for that matter? I understand that changes in church teaching a sore subject for some Catholics, but its relevant. Jonathan Tweet 14:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- The only previous catechism it can be compared to is the Roman Catechism of 1566, authorized by the Council of Trent. The two are not really all that comparable, since the Roman Catechism was intended for use by priests, and the CCC is intended for both priests and laity. They have the same general format, but the CCC is a wholly new book covering the same topics rather than a revision of the Roman Catechism. Jhobson1 (talk) 14:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
