Talk:Catch phrase

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About "There are four lights!!":

First of all i am a Star Trek fan but live outside the US so i never encountered this as a catch phrase; of course it makes perfect sense and i'll probably start using it myself! (um... among fellow fans, that is ;)

However: Isn't the whole brainwashing situation and therefore the phrase itself directly based on 1984 (book and film) which is also a household name? In that case the original phrase would be the one about 2+2=5 (dont remember exactly), unless the 4 lights phrase was really popular in mainstream culture. And then what about Room 101, could it be a catch phrase? Or maybe a meme?

It sure sounds like it. Did they keep giving the guy-who-says-4 more pain? Dysprosia 06:32, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Well, they kept trying to break him down, yes. I just noticed there is an article on Room 101 as well. --Black Phoenix 06:42, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)


"Cult Phrases"

The status of a quote as a "catch phrase" often varies along with social groups/cultures (for lack of a better definition). For example, "Khaaaaaan!!!", might be considered a catch phrase among Star Trek or science fiction fans, but is properly not well known among those unfamiliar with the genre . On the other hand, "Beam me up, Scotty" or "May the Force be with you" are rather universal and deeply rooted in pop culture.

Should phrases such as "Khaaaaaan!!!" be classified as catch phrases? What about calling them "cult phrases"? I am thinking of writing a new article under that title if nobody thinks it unreasonable and would welcome any suggestions.

To clarify, i define "cult phrases" as a subgenre of catch phrases when a phrase is a prominent catch phrase but only among a particular group of people, sometimes outside the mainstream culture.

Proposed examples:

"It can't rain all the time" From The Crow -> Applies to fans of the comic and film and by extrapolation to people who follow the (modern) goth lifestyle because The Crow is very popular among them.

"Thank you for your cooperation" From Robocop -> Robocop and Paul Verhoeven fans, makes sense as satire of police and large corporation marketing/beaurocracy/hypocrisy.

"Khaaaaaan!!!" From Star Trek -> Very popular and jokingly used by Trek fans but not really anybody else, AFAIK.

Quotes from the Street Fighter and Monkey Island games, anime, science fiction, RPGs, rock bands, all sciences and fields, sports etc that have risen above the status of mere quotes and are readily used in everyday life situations but are virtually unknown in the mainstream.

All suggestions and comments welcome. --Black Phoenix 18:20, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Khaaan!" would not be a catchphrase because it doesn't identify Kirk, it's not a trademark of Kirk, it's just an infamous quote. Philwelch 00:27, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

My point exactly; but among a certain, well-defined group of people it is much more. This is why i propose this subcategory. --Black Phoenix 13:17, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Finest kind"?? What on earth is that?? I've never heard Hawkeye say that, and it doesn't even make any sense. Please explain. Moncrief, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It's from the book by Richard Hooker; it isn't very prominent in the film or TV series. It's a pseudo-Maineism that Hawkeye used frequently to mean, well... just about anything, I think. -FZ 16:38, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"Say Goodnight Gracie" I think this is Goerge Burns, and predates Laugh-in, doesn't it? DJ Clayworth 22:40, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

That's an entirely separate catch phrase - add if you wish. The "Laugh-In" example is still valid, and is as separate from George Burns's phrase as the "Laugh-In" example is from "The Waltons"'s "Good night, John Boy," for example. Moncrief, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Don't mention the war" was quite a popular 'catch phrase' prior to Basil Fawlty saying it in Fawlty Towers.
SimonMayer 22:14, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I totally don't understand why "I didn't inhale" is not a catch phrase. It becomes so popular and got repeated so frequently that many people use it as an equivalence for a humorous denial. Everyone remembers who said it and it is a trade mark!!! Kowloonese 23:24, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

You said it exactly. People use it as an equivalence for a humorous denial. They DON'T use it as a means of identifying Bill Clinton. As opposed to say, Tattoo's "The plane! The plane!" which really can't isn't used metaphorically elsewhere. Philwelch 00:27, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

There are many more that I am not sure about the source.

  • "He.......re's Johny!"
  • "Waynes' world, Wayne's world" SNL?
  • "Don't touch my monkey" a character in SNL.
  • "Zoom zoom zoom" Mazda?
  • "That the rest of the story" Paul Harvey?
  • "To infinity and beyond" ??? Buzz Lightyear in Toy story?
  • Who's you gonna call? - ghostbusters
  • Beep Beep! Road Runner.
  • "Is it safe?" - the bad guy in a Dustin Hoffman movie.

Kowloonese 23:55, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

How is a catch phrase different from a slogan? Kowloonese 00:20, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

There's quite a bit of overlap, but I think you can intuitively grasp the difference between an advertising slogan (such as, for Volkswagen, "Drivers wanted") as opposed to Tattoo's "Ze plaane! Ze plaane!". Philwelch 00:27, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Should Darth Vader's "I am your father" be here? I know it's hard to imagine, but it's possible that there may still be some folks out there who would be spoiled by this.Mole 18:19, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Oh, heavens, people had over two decades to see it. Mike H 18:57, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Split?

As this list grows larger and larger perhaps it could/should be split into catchphrases from individuals and catchphrases from TV shows and film. Any thoughts? violet/riga (t) 06:09, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think this should just go in List of catch phrases instead of actually having it in the catch phrase article, really. Mike H 07:30, Oct 15, 2004 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of moving them to their separate article. If anyone has objections, please raise them. I didn't think the move was controversial enough to really need discussion or anything...correct me if I'm wrong about that. Mike H 07:34, Oct 15, 2004 (UTC)
A list this long really does deserve its own "List of catch phrases" article. The real question is whether there's enough material for the main "Catch phrase" article to leave it in place. It should be more than a definition, which otherwise should be in Wiktionary. The list, too, should probably include or refer to much of the current introductory text in order to clarify what does and doesn't belong, which might make a separate "Catch phrase" article redundant. However, since there's plenty of discussion of the fine points of inclusion and exclusion in the main article and this Talk page, I would suggest the following:
  • Retain the main article, sans list, but including a thorough discussion about comparisons and contrasts to slogans, "cult phrases", famous (or infamous) quotations, and the like.
  • Replace the redundant introductory text line of the current List of catch phrases article with a brief introduction (perhaps 2 or 3 succinct sentences) and include a link to Catch phrases for further information.
I highly recommend making definitive changes swiftly. With the list now in two places at once, people are likely to start adding and modifying both copies of the list irregularly, rapidly desynchronizing them. — Jeff Q 20:13, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The list is in two places at once? Where? Mike H 22:08, Oct 15, 2004 (UTC)
Apparently nowhere. When I wrote the observation above, nearly 13 hours after you, Mike H (AKA TheCustomOfLife), created the List of catch phrases, I saw a Catch phrases page that included the list. I'm not sure how that happened. I see from the two pages' histories that you appear to have created the List of page from the main page, then removed the list from the latter just a minute later. I must have been looking at a cached copy of Catch phrases. Sorry about the confusion. — Jeff Q 06:17, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Catchphrase or not?

If "all your base are belong to us" is NOT a catchphrase, then why is it in the list of catchphrases? Plus, "don't mention the war!" has been removed from this same list! It goes against the definition in this page, don't you think?? Purple Rose 05:41, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bogus definition?

The article currently defines a "catch phrase" as such:

However, in order to be a catch phrase, a quote generally has to be more than a famous (or infamous) statement. It also usually serves two additional functions: first, to identify the speaker; and secondly, to serve primarily as that character's "trademark."

Says who? Certainly not several online dictionaries I consulted, which say simply that a catchphrase is "an expression that has caught on and is used repeatedly", and nothing about a character's "trademark" phrase.

This article cites no sources, which undermines confidence in its accuracy. Unless someone can come up with a reliable published source that supports the definition given in this article, I will change it. Thanks. --Kevin Myers 03:18, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] If a catchphrase must necessarily be successful...

Advertisers (and television content creators) often attempt to come up with catch phrases; what are the resulting phrases called when they fail to 'catch' on? [They are referred to as catchphrases during inception]

I think it's also worth noting that while some catch phrases spontaneously "catch-on" (such as Bill Clinton's "I didn't inhale"), many are intentionally promoted with the hopes that they get adopted by society at large. Most advertisement-derived phrases are examples of this (although "I've fallen and I can't get up" is a notable exception), as well as many movie and TV phrases (especially wrestling). Pimlottc 05:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flagging "facts" and inviting discussion

I was very disappointed with this article. Very strong assertions are made about what a catch phrase is and what it is not, and although I think most people can recognize (or believe they recognize) one when they see one, some of the assertions made are questionable at best, not backed up, and not helpful.

This article did not enlighten me or teach me anything, rather it confused me and just, well, muddled everything. The talk page was not any better. I suggest a thorough rewrite.

Many cultural anthropologists and pop-culture scholars study such things and write at great length about them. Surely they have come to enough of a consensus, and have more eloquently and intelligently expressed their ideas, than we have seen here. Perhaps we should invite some of them among us to help.

I do recognize that this subject is inherently subjective, but having said that, shouldn't we be all the more careful about stating something as a fact?

I hope nobody gets pissed off, but I am going to flag portions of this article, because I believe they are warranted. Please don't take it personally. I reviewed its lenghty edit history and am well aware that it has been around a while and a lot of hands have touched it. Hopefully someone with ideas better than those proposed previously will notice and stop on by.

Regards,

-- Paul Klenk 06:11, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

As threatened here and at list of catch phrases, I removed some of the bogus statements from the article, including the absurd assertion that All your base are belong to us is not a catch phrase. I think the article is now ready to move forward on a more factual basis. --Kevin Myers 04:24, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Oh, and more examples are needed in the text, especially since the list of catch phrases is so long, without context, and many of them are not actually popular catch phrases, since the list sprang from a bogus definition. I put several examples in the article, but they're all from the U.S. Some British and Canadian catch phrases should be added, at least. --Kevin Myers 04:28, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Kevin, nice work on the clean up. Some thoughts:
I think Manifest Destiny's endurance as a phrase is valid, but I'm not sure I would it a catch phrase any longer. It caught on, yes, but then it sort of made it into the lexicon of political/nat'l policy terms in history. Also, some of my research indicates a slight difference in meaning of catch word and catch phrase. It's hard to put my finger on it, but catch phrase seems more frivolous, while catch word seems to be adopted by serious groups talking about polict matters (see bartleby's encyclopedia).
This article will be a challenge because of it's ephemeral, subjective nature. Plus, there are frankly a lot of boobs who wander in from pop-culture chat throwing in whatever they're hearing on TV. Refactoring that stuff was a real chore. I appreciate your help. Paul Klenk 07:14, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I'll try to make it clear that "Manifest Destiny" was a catch phrase of the 1840s, but it's no longer one -- it's a historical term. I found this article while working on that one -- I felt I couldn't link the term "catch phrase" over there until this article gave an accurate definition of the term. You're right: an article like this is a challenge. It's tough to find definitive references, and thus easy to wander into original interpretation, which is exactly what some previous editor did, in the process inadvertently concocting a dubious definition of "catch phrase." I probably won't do much more work here, so keep up the good work and best of luck. --Kevin Myers 16:41, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Kevin, we should also explore the previous claim that CPs are mostly spread through speech, not writing. I do think there's something to this, but I think we need to make our observations with precision. Also: some phrases, like "Yada yada yada," become used in the same way the character used them -- in context of the conversation. Others just seem to be repeated as non sequiturs. klenk 23:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

This makes me think of another interesting point: how TV can turn an old expression into a brand new catch phrase. I'm sure there are many people who think "Don't have a cow" originated on The Simpsons and that "yada yada yada" was coined on Seinfeld, but both phrases predate the TV shows by many years: they didn't become catch phrases until they were used memorably on TV and repeated all over the place.
As for how catch phrases are actually spread, I imagine that it's a combination of all media as well as conversation around the proverbial water cooler. Certainly technology has a huge effect: before TV & the Internet, catch phrases were probably spread by radio and (before that) in print. It'd be nice to have a source that has explored this.--Kevin Myers 15:24, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
Origin or "coining" has nothing to do with it. What makes a catch phrase a catch phrase is not that it's new, but that it becomes so widespread so quickly.
How they are spread is not the same thing as how they got started, or who started them. Your point is well taken, however. And I'm sure that cultural anthropologists have written a plethera about this topic and could write an amazing article here. paul klenk


[edit] Americanisation

Just a comment, rather than a criticism, but most of the examples on the main entry will only really make sense to a US audience, The Simpsons, with it's massive international syndication are an exception.

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[edit] Expansion

  • On 11 November 2007 Flyer22said: "I can expand this article, but it won't be immediate that I do."
  • I think that it needs to be clear that a catch phrase does not have to be identified with a specific individual. A catch phrase can point to a joke, a period of time, a profession, etc. --Bejnar (talk) 03:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry that it's taken so long for me to get back to this article. I've been busy with so many things. Yes, I'll expand this article soon. Flyer22 (talk) 06:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] where does this one come from?

"Put your money where your mouth is"? Did it form during the early mobster controlled chicago period?137.240.136.86 15:50, 1 December 2007 (UTC)