Talk:Catch-22 (film)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Catch-22 (film) article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Films     (Rated Start-Class)   (Rated Mid importance) Film Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Films. This project is a central gathering of editors working to build comprehensive and detailed articles for film topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the priority scale. Editing Guidelines Please remember these guidelines when editing a film article: If a non-film article already exists with the name of the film that you are trying to create an article for, disambiguate and use (film) in the title: Film Title (film) For more information see: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films) When writing an article about a particular film, the general format should be a concise lead section, followed by a plot summary of no more than 900 words, production details, a cast list, a reception section, and references. Create an Infobox that tells all pertinent information about the film. Additional Information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Related task forces (general): War films task force Military history WikiProject     (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- B-Class-1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Associated task forces (general topics): War films task force

Contents 1 I was looking for the movie page 2 Layout of the page 3 Revisions required 4 Article maintenance tags placed to invite help 4.1 Lead 5 Reviews 6 Bibliography question

[edit] I was looking for the movie page

Saw no reference to the book. Considering the size of the book, the movie would have been three hours long. Unlike MASH's episodic comedy, "Catch 22" had a theme and moral running through it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(logic) for "The prototypical Catch-22, as formulated by Heller, considers the case of a U.S. Army Air Forces bombardier who wishes to be excused from combat flight duty. 'In order to be excused from such duty, he must submit an official medical diagnosis from his squadron's flight surgeon, demonstrating that he is unfit because he is insane. According to Army regulations, any sane person would naturally not want to fly combat missions because they are so dangerous. By requesting permission not to fly combat missions, on the grounds of insanity, the bombardier demonstrates that he is in fact sane and therefore is fit to fly. Conversely, any flyer who wished to fly on combat runs implicitly demonstrated that he was insane and was unfit to fly and ought to be excused, and to be excused this person would only need to submit a request. Naturally, such flyers never submitted such requests. Of course, if they did, the "Catch" would assert itself, short-circuiting any such attempt to escape from combat duty.'"it is restated simply as "anything can be done to you that you can not prevent" the logical conclusion being eventual destruction or assimilation. This "Catch 22" reccurs throughout the story, and was implied to the US Government in general and in particular to the Vietnam War (if you volunteered you went to Germany, if didn't want to go was drafted to Vietnam). Shjacks45 (talk) 03:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Layout of the page

I was expecting to find more info about the movie in itself. It could be warned as "spoiler" (though for me it is no spoiler as i saw the movie already)

However right now when i look at the page, there is a big listing about aircrafts used in the movie. I think having this information is nice, but its a bit too long compared to "Summary" of the movie. I thus propose to extend the summary for this movie. (If noone else does this or objects to my proposal here, I will do so at some time in the future. I really think the summary should be longer, compared to the listing of aircrafts in the movie ;) I am not a native english speaker though.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.103.172 (talk) 09:42, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revisions required

The article as such is a closer to a stub than a full article. A recent edit eliminated all references to the aircraft which are more than just stage dressing for the film. Catch 22 is regarded as a pivotal film in the preservation of B-25 aircraft worldwide. Many of the surviving airframes owe their existence to the film. However, it may be more appropriate to create an establishing statement as to the importance of the aircraft and then re-locate the list to a sub-article such as "B-25 Mitchell aircraft used in Catch 22 (film)". FWiW a great deal of further work is needed throughout the article. Bzuk (talk) 18:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC).

I would suggest dropping in a fresh Template:Infobox Film to make the infobox more readable. Also, the poster is actually a DVD cover as you can tell from the "Widescreen Collection" label at the bottom. This should be the original poster, which I suggest uploading over the existing file. Also, you may want to use {{filmrationale}} like it has been used at Blindness poster.jpg. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 02:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't notice that was the DVD cover, but I will replace it with the poster. As the article may be developed further, the DVD cover can also be used later. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 00:29, 16 April 2008 (UTC).

[edit] Article maintenance tags placed to invite help

I placed three clean-up maintenance tags to alert editors to the need for assistance in improving the article. There are sources listed in a Bibliography section, but with no inline cites, so it is difficult to tell what copy is supported by references and what isn't. Inline citations are needed. Also, the Plot description contains what is probably original research that could be rectified by removal, rewrite, or cites to reliable sources. Help in rewriting and citing is welcome. The concerns about OR are not limited to just the Plot section (Adaptation and Production appear questionable), but proper sourcing may take care of the other areas. Finally, the Lead is not supported by the body of the article. A rewrite limiting the Lead to what is verifiable in the rest of the article will resolve the issue, or augmenting the body with appropriate material will work even better. Thanks for any help.
Jim Dunning | talk 00:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lead

If someone with access to the source for the cited production information in the Lead could add it to the Production section, it would be appreciated. I haven't been able to locate the hardcopy sources, nor find parallel online sources, or I'd do it myself. This will help us meet WP:LEAD guidelines. Thanks.
Jim Dunning | talk 17:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reviews

• Roger Ebert
• The New York Times
• Another NYT
• minor Caryn James at NYT

Reviews to use. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 02:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks: the Canby review in the Times is especially helpful.
Jim Dunning | talk 04:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem; I have a feeling we're not going to find too many reviews of this film online, considering it's from 1970 and not too famous. If you need help retrieving print reviews, let me know. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 11:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to start checking the professional research databases and see what can be turned up.
Jim Dunning | talk 19:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bibliography question

There are references to two Farmer sources, "Farmer 1972" and "Farmer 1989". I see the full cite for 1972, but what is the 1989 one?
Jim Dunning | talk 03:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch, corrected. On another issue, the template in use for periodicals has a "bug" and has to be rewritten in text because it will not take a m-d-y format. The other template used for the NASM reference was slightly altered, see code. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 11:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC).

Thanks. As for the accessed date format, not sure what you're referring to. Both formats rendered the same, even when I changed my user date format preferences. How does your computer/browser render the date when it's entered as "2008-04-16" in the template and preference is set to "month dd, year" (standard US format)? Mine comes out as "April 16, 2008". I haven't heard of other users with issues and the template is used extensively. Even when I put the article date as "[[2008-02-29]]", it renders as expected. Mmmmm. Curious. I use Firefox, btw.
Jim Dunning | talk 17:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The reason for commonality in reading dates is for ease of use of the general user who may not have date preferences set. It is easiest to use one system throughout since the majority of visitors to the site may not be Wikipedia editors who have the date preferences in place. FWiW, if your preferences are not set to your preference, then you get what you write (WYSIWYG) and two dates appear, one in ISO standard and the other in the more common "popular" format of m-d-y. Bzuk (talk) 19:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC).