Talk:Castling

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[edit] sidebar

The page now has the sidebar on top of the diagrams. It didn't before. Can you fix it? -phma

I don't understand. Do you mean that the large bold "Castling (chess)" is above the diagrams? But I think it was above before I reformatted the table. Looking at previous versions shows it in the same position. --Fritzlein

Is the OOO notation the same in both types of chess notation?

Basically, yes, although in some very old game scores you find it spelled out in words ("Castles Q-Side"). --Camembert

In the line about it being allowed to castle if the rook is under attack, should the second part be "or move through an attacked square"? Rmhermen 17:07 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yes. --Fritzlein 19:23 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Nunh-huh informs me that I am wrong to judge that "castle" is an incorrect term to use to refer to the rook. Therefore, I am putting his conclusion to the test -- if, as he claims, "castle" is no more incorrect or unacceptable than "rook", then replacing all the occurrences of "rook" with "castle" in this article should meet with no objections. Since I've changed all the terms at once, the terminology remains consistent throughout the article. It's no different than if I changed all occurences of the word "color" to "colour", or "quarter-note" to "crotchet". Anyone who objects to these changes has no right to change back, and if you think so, register your complaints elsewhere. Revolver 04:33, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Of course your little "experiment" will be reverted. I have never suggested that you replace anything: what I suggested (at Rook (chess)) is that you not label the use of "castle" as incorrect, since this use is found in every reasonably complete English language dictionary. You would be similarly taken to task, one hopes, if you were to opine that either "color" or "colour" is incorrect. You may find some thoughts of interest at Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. - Nunh-huh
Yes, but an "experiment" that changed every instance of "color" to "colour" would NOT be reverted, and in fact, this has been done! (I.e., people have found it "necessary" to change "colour" to "color" or vice versa, and nothing was done to revert it.) The fact that my "experiment" WILL be reverted (by myself, incidentally), only DOES prove my point. (Namely, that this isn't the same thing as the color/colour debate, and that the dictionaries ARE wrong.) But, whatever. 128.111.88.244 06:23, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The a pawn

The article notes that in queen-side castling

the a pawn is undefended

This means that the pawn on the a-file is undefended. Since "the" and "a" are both English articles, this initially reads like a mistake. ("The a pawn is undefended? Is a pawn undefended, or is the pawn undefended?") Is there a common convention for avoiding confusion between "a" as the name of a Chess file and "a" as the English indefinite article? How about "the pawn on the A file" or "the pawn on the a-file"? Is there a Wikipedia standard about using Chess notation in English texts? Schoen 20:14, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I've changed that by listing the file. Bubba73 (talk), 02:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
The simple solution is to write "the a-pawn".

[edit] Castling

I've reverted the latest edits about castling, which seemed to suggest that the rule (see #3.8) about not being able to castle out of check is only an "opinion". If it's in FIDE rules, then that's that - any other rules that people may play should be noted as exceptions, not equally valid alternatives. — sjorford++ 13:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

You are correct. Bubba73 (talk), 15:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I removed this: Castling out of check is chess move where the King castles to escape an attack by his opponent. According to most opinions, this move is not allowed, though the reason is not given. Most chess players don't know about this restriction, and many think it should be allowed., whuch was merged from its own article. The rules of standard chess do not allow you to castle if you are in check. This is a rule, not an "opinion". Bubba73 (talk), 05:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Note about squares under attack between castling pieces

I added a line about the king not being able to castle if the king would have to pass through squares that are under attack by enemy pieces James Strong 01:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can someone answer my question please?

For many years I was under the impression that one of the requirements for castling was that whether kingside or queenside when you castle; the last three pawns in either the A,B, and C files or F, G, and H depending which way you castle your king, must not have been moved past the 2nd or 7th rank respectively. However I a have discovered that the many sources I have checked from books to various websites does not state the pawn positions as a requiremnt. However I am occasionally introduced to carious diagrams that show those pawns in positions acting as barriers to the castles king. Is that just a coincidence or is that barrier of pawns actually a requirement? I hope someone has the answer to my question. Thank you in advance.

The barrier of pawns in not a requirement. However, you generally want those three pawns to be in their original position when you castle as the pawns give great protection to the king. It is often seen as a weakness to have any of the three pawns in front of your castled king to be moved from their original position as the hole(s) created by the moved pawn(s) allow the enemy to enter your castled position. James Strong 22:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Also, beware the back rank mate... Delirious prince 04:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requirements: Unknown reason?

4. The king may not pass through squares that are under attack by enemy pieces, and the king cannot be in check after castling. (A few players condone this if the king would end up on a safe square after the move. *Though the reason for this is unknown, this restriction is accepted by most official chess committees worldwide.*)

The reason for this rule is clearly explained in En-passant: "The idea behind en passant was that when the two-square first move for pawns was introduced to speed up the opening phase [...] The same principle can be seen in the rule that one cannot castle through check. Since a king ordinarily moves only one square at a time, he cannot move two squares at once, and thus renders himself vulnerable to being captured in passing through the first square. Since by the conventions of chess, a king is not allowed to put himself into check, so castling through check is not allowed."

Does this clarify? Maybe this should be included on the Castling page. -- Irfy 128.131.54.146 17:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

My fault, before I moved this note, it was in reference to the reason why you can't castle when the king is in check, not why you can't castle if the spaces between are in check (a rule I forget to restate in the requirements after I took it out from the clarifications, d'oh). At any rate, I think this is a fairly uncontroversial rule, so I'll remove the "unknown reason" bit.
And I forgot to sign, this just isn't my day. BrentG 04:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rook after castling

Is it true that the rook cannot be under attack after castling in order for castling to work? -- Jordan 21:29, 7 August 2006

If the rook is under attack after castling, then the square it is on is a square the king moved over. Since the king is not allowed to pass through check, then castling would be prohibited in that situation.--Lkjhgfdsa 20:30, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fix please

Rule #5 in the Requirements links to a footnote that already contradicts Rule #2. Any comments?? Georgia guy 00:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

As I understand the footnote it basically says that a pawn can be promoted to a rook once he has reached the other side. If he's in front of the King when he does this, the resulting Rook will not have moved, and thus technically Rule 2 would not forbid a vertical castle, across the board, to occur. Eboli 22:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guess what??

I've just discovered an external link to a site on the German Wikipedia that has no equivalent in the English Wikipedia. Can anyone please create the English equivalent?? Georgia guy 00:03, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

What equivalent?... WinterSpw 23:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect/duplicate requiremnt

I am deleting what was labeled requirement #7: The king and the rook must be on the same rank.

Of course the king and rook are on the same rank if neither has been yet moved, which is rule #1. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 139.169.218.182 (talk) 19:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

As the article explains, the problem is when you promote a pawn to a rook. That (new) rook has not yet moved. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
-- nevermind, I just read the reference in the notes. That seems ridiculous though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 139.169.218.182 (talk) 19:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC).
It is a little ridiculous, and confusing. We're just supposed to report what reliable sources say about the matter, though, and the FIDE rules, and the way they handle the issue, are the important source there. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
It's quite sad though. I mean, if you can actually make productive use of such an outrageous move, more power to you! 24.110.145.57 15:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
It isn't happy or sad - it is a rule. Bubba73 (talk), 20:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of castling

The article could use a section on the history of the castling rule. The Oxford Companion to Chess has some useful material, and I think A History of Chess has even more detail. Italian free castling should be described, and then the mention of free castling in Serafino Dubois could be made into a link. Quale 09:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I've added a section based on Sunnucks' Encyclopedia. OTher sources may have more info that can be added. Bubba73 (talk), 20:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] taking and castling at the same time?

Say that there is an enemy knight next to the rook on the kingside. neither king nor rook have moved. Can the king castle, and take the piece? BillMasen 17:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You can find information in the article that will answer this question. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 17:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Summarily, no you can't. WinterSpw 23:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Under "Requirements": 3. There must be no pieces between the king and the chosen rook. -- Jao 09:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)